Words and language

Omkaradatta's picture



Average: 4 (1 vote)

Words/concepts are dualistic, and do not bring us together. Although serving as a reason for physical togetherness, words either are neutral or they separate us. True communion is found only in Silence.

— Omkaradatta



Phroggy's picture

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But history is replete with powerful, eloquent, charismatic speakers and writers who have brought people together with their words.Literature and poetry can unite on levels of both thought and feeling.

Phroggy | Sun, 12/21/2008 - 20:22
Omkaradatta's picture

Mmmf

"But history is replete with powerful, eloquent, charismatic speakers and writers who have brought people together with their words.Literature and poetry can unite on levels of both thought and feeling."

^^^ Those words don't bring us together on this ;-).

I think what you mean is 'bring people closer together', have them agreeing (more) on things. Such a thing happens against a background of verbal disagreement, eh? Some words do separate less than others.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 12/21/2008 - 20:41
Phroggy's picture

~

It's true words can't cause some kind of Oneness realization, but I've heard and read many words from many wise and 'enlightened' beings that gave me a focus of consciousness that led to a realization. We might even be able to say that this happens daily, and it's not just the great words. Any words that make me stop and 'look' have the potential to bring clarity if that's the intention of reading them.

Phroggy | Sun, 12/21/2008 - 21:16
Omkaradatta's picture

Not saying...

Not saying there's something *wrong* with words/concepts, just that they're much more limited than we tend to believe. And I certainly acknowledge and honor what's happening with you.

P.S. although words have served as a focus, could it be that the clarity comes from 'peeking between the cracks' of the words, so to speak? Certainly, awareness itself is non-verbal.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Mon, 12/22/2008 - 02:29
Phroggy's picture

~

Righto, that's what I mean by "looking". For me, it's really very much like the scientist who mentally works on a problem all day, and then stops to rest and the answer suddenly shows up in a flash of insight. We all know why this works when it comes to 'resting the mind', and we've all experienced the same thing in some way at least. Even trying to remember something, and as soon as we give up, the memory is there. It's a crude example of a woo woo intuitive insight, but it's the same 'process' of mind getting out of the way and allowing awareness to happen.

The part of the scientists realization that we tend to ignore is the mental focus on the issue (problem in this case). That focus of consciousness is what brings clarity about 'something'. Without that focus, it's a relaxed, open awareness, which is wonderful but it rarely brings clarity, and whether we like it or not, mind needs clarity to release it's grasping at delusional puruits.

Hencely, there is a focus of mind on an area of interest, which may be a comment in a post here, followed by an emptying of mind between the reading and the responding; a kind of expansion that allows for that clarity. This can be done all the time, with everything, and amounts to what you once called an unbroken meditation.

I don't think I've ever prattled on about my 'process' so much because I realize it's only my way, but then again there's always the possibility it might be a damn good way.

Phroggy | Mon, 12/22/2008 - 02:51
Omkaradatta's picture

Well stated

Well stated, and this looks here like a great example of the effect 'seeking' has on us: "Even trying to remember something, and as soon as we give up, the memory is there."

Our longer-term goals have an obfuscating effect, too. Anything that isn't happening in the moment, isn't happening at all and is gumming up the works of what IS happening.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Mon, 12/22/2008 - 03:02
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, indeed, and this is one of the things that can be noticed, something that we've talked about repeatedly here in terms of the goals of meditation and techniques. The idea has not been received well, to say the least, which itself is quite interesting.

Phroggy | Mon, 12/22/2008 - 08:06