Don't see the faults of ...

ammassridhar's picture



Average: 4.8 (6 votes)

When a man sees defects in others, his own mind first gets polluted. What does he gain by finding faults in others? He only hurts himself by that.

— The Holy Mother, Sri Sarada Devi ...



madan_gautam's picture

Don't see the faults of ...

This is true for a man/woman, but not for a GURU.
One should see/through study "The Gospel Of Shri RamaKrishna Paramhansa", only the it will come to understand.
OM

madan_gautam | Mon, 01/05/2009 - 14:51
Phroggy's picture

~

The guru does not see faults. He does not see a problem at all.

Phroggy | Mon, 01/05/2009 - 21:47
johnd's picture

projection

This is so relevant - as someone wrote in the forums yesterday seeing the faults of others is a trick to avoid looking at our faults, it is also part of playing the victim - I am right, it is the other that are wrong... It is a wall the mind puts and you can never break it to access the other...

The turn is when such a person is willing to take what he states about somebody else and replace the "he" with "I" - he sees that is a sharp projection of his/her behavior.

johnd | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 00:58
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, and even more insidious, how does one know that the seeing of a projection in another, is not merely a projection?

Phroggy | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 03:02
Omkaradatta's picture

It's possible...

"Yes, and even more insidious, how does one know that the seeing of a projection in another, is not merely a projection?"

Only by being utterly free of ego oneself. How does one know that? It's just known directly, when all lack, uncertainty and doubt (which IS the ego) clears. One is completely aware and clear about their actions (/reactions) from moment to moment.

Can one fool themselves about being free of ego? Sure, but in my view it would require a deep unconsciousness.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 03:14
Phroggy's picture

~

Sure, and folks fool themselves all the time, which is what unconsciousness is about. I don't know what it looks like from your perspective, but I find the 'projections' never stop in a sense because they're fundamentally a focus of attention that's derived from conditioning.

In one who is fairly unconscious, one's own feelings and self judgments may be falsely projected onto another. When one is 'conscious', the dynamics of 'other' may be seen clearly, but atention may be drawn this way or that, and likes and dislikes and perspectives will vary. These are still filters on our perception of others, areas we 'choose' to pay attention to, which in a way is still a projection, though we're aware of what's happening.

Phroggy | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 05:08
Omkaradatta's picture

From 'my perspective', hmmn...

All I can say is that likes/dislikes are 'personal' attributes, and that I "like" everything ;-). Such filters you mention don't seem here to be a necessity.

Edit -- well, about the only thing I don't 'like' is delusion. It seems to just jump out when conversing with folks, either online or 'in person'. Even the most subtle, if that's believable to ya (doesn't matter).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 05:19
Phroggy's picture

~

Oh, yes, delusion leaves a 'bad taste' in the mouth here, as well as the cruelty that is often derived from it. I also find that when others are verbally attacked unjustly, there's the urge to 'correct'. Such things are a matter of personal conditioning for me and are not judged, nor do they happen unconsciously, but still, they happen.

I didn't mean to imply that likes/dislikes are a "necessity", but if you mean to say they are not operative in 'you', that's not how I see it. Do preferences, likes/dislikes ever go away? I say no.

Phroggy | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 05:46
Omkaradatta's picture

"I didn't mean to imply that

"I didn't mean to imply that likes/dislikes are a "necessity", but if you mean to say they are not operative in 'you', that's not how I see it."

When you see me, you see you. There is no getting around this, period. The mind is alone.

"Do preferences, likes/dislikes ever go away? I say no."

Okay. It hardly matters, as if 'awakening' happens then one gets to find out.

P.S. dislike equates to nonacceptance, does it not? There's a very 'lightweight' preference thang going here. For example, I'd rather smell the ocean breeze than human waste, but I'm fine in either instance. The things I 'prefer' are things that happen to be around, or that I happen to buy at the store, or what have ya... I'm not seeking anything out, nor shunning anything. Does that make any sense?

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 06:45
Phroggy's picture

~

"P.S. dislike equates to nonacceptance, does it not? There's a very 'lightweight' preference thang going here. For example, I'd rather smell the ocean breeze than human waste, but I'm fine in either instance. The things I 'prefer' are things that happen to be around, or that I happen to buy at the store, or what have ya... I'm not seeking anything out, nor shunning anything. Does that make any sense?"

Yeah, it makes sense just fine. Likes and preferences are just the same word with different 'weights'. As I see it, this is part of the functioning of the vehicle, which you are not. You didn't end the functioning of the vehicle, you just stopped identifying with it. The vehicle will continue to spontaneously seek pleasure and avoid pain, just as any other animal will do, but without the overlay of struggle formed in the identification with the experiences as 'mine'; 'my pleasure', 'my pain', 'my likes/dislikes'.

Acceptance does not mean, 'I'll stand here in the cold and freeze to death because I accept freezing to death', it just means that what needs to be done will be done spontaneously without struggle and suffering because it's just happening and really has nothing to do with me.

Phroggy | Tue, 01/06/2009 - 20:25
Omkaradatta's picture

You know me...

"Yeah, it makes sense just fine."

Well, you know me. You *are* me. Others know me too, they merely pretend not to so they're not alone.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 01/07/2009 - 04:14
Phroggy's picture

~

It's interesting. If we don't find differences with 'others' there is no other, and hencely no relationship. And no relationship, no 'me'.

Phroggy | Wed, 01/07/2009 - 05:50
Omkaradatta's picture

Niz

Questioner: What you say is true; what I understand is false, though the words are the same. There is a gap between us. How to close the gap?

Niz: Give up the idea of being what you think yourself to be and there will be no gap. By imagining yourself as separate you have created the gap. You need not cross it. Just don't create it.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 01/07/2009 - 06:13
Omkaradatta's picture

P.S. (Phroggy)

"...if you mean to say they are not operative in 'you', that's not how I see it."

P.S. this brings up an interesting point. The only reason I'd want to know "how you see me" is to revise my self-image (provided I had one). And if you changed your mind in five minutes, would I want to revise it again?

What should one base a "self-image" on? How their mother (claims to) see them? Their girlfriend? A stranger on the street? Is there anything there but a bunch of mental pictures, snapshots based not even on how I 'really' appear, but how I am imagined by others? (provided that such mental pictures even arise in anyone's mind at all).

Should it be based on a glimpse in the mirror this morning? What I saw this afternoon? A month ago? In childhood? What I see in the mirror now? After I sit down again, am I still seeing what I saw in the mirror, is that 'image' still existent somewhere in reality?

The whole notion of a 'self' or 'me' is absurd, due to the ever-changing nature of time and perception. Not to mention the fact that we know only what we're told in words, not what some other person actually sees. Nobody has ever really seen 'me', including myself, only imagined me. The whole thing is a dream.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 01/07/2009 - 11:34
Phroggy's picture

~

True. Since there is nothing behind the self image, it becomes all important for most folks, and a good self image, self esteem, self worth is considered very positive by most of the world. This is what self improvement is all about.

Phroggy | Thu, 01/08/2009 - 03:23