Spiritual life is full of bliss, no it's full of suffering ...?

ammassridhar's picture





nancy pro's picture

I would add

I would add the option "Neither and both"

nancy pro | Sun, 09/07/2008 - 08:05
Phroggy's picture

Me too, me too

Yes, to search for bliss is the same as to search for suffering; one experienced against the backdrop of the other. Beyond bliss and suffering is Beingness.

Phroggy | Sun, 09/07/2008 - 18:27
Omkaradatta's picture

Spiritual life...

... is just full, period. Fulfilled. Absent of search.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 09/07/2008 - 08:13
Gigs's picture

What are the limits of suffering and bliss

Is suffering needed to attain bliss? Unless we know what is suffering can we know bliss? Is heightened awareness of both necessary or does 'being' mean a state impervious to both? Is spiritual life all about acceptance?

Gigs | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 06:25
Phroggy's picture

~

Suffering and bliss are two sides of the same coin. Many times, folks learn how to attain bliss in meditation, but when not meditating it feels like drug withdrawl. No way to win, just as with the rest of life. Awakening is the transcendence of both suffering and nonsuffering, but a non-causal Joy/Peace is inherent in that 'state'.

Yes, I say spiritual life is all about acceptance.

Phroggy | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 08:48
Omkaradatta's picture

Is it about acceptance?

I'd say it's about non-rejectance. Forget acceptance, just stop rejecting. You need not acquire anything new (like acceptance), just lose what you already have, the tendency to reject, react, avert and avoid.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 09:32
lucas's picture

they mean the same

At the end of the day it is just a game of words like anything else done in the level of words and concepts. As words can only serve as signpost each one should pick the words that best trigger in the world of his mental context the realization of the object pointed by the word so that in practice he will react not from ignorance. For some it is "acceptance", for some it is "no rejection", both mean and feel in the essence and practice the same.

And a good relevant advice I was once given and I am now sharing: at some point, a certain word loses its energetic effectiveness as a signpost and then the mind jumps on the opportunity and glue the word to some convenient conditioning (examples of such "tired" words: god, love, accept, observe, I). Therefore, it is recommended from time to time to revise and change the personal inner terminology, even artificially. It does wonders.

lucas | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 13:25
Phroggy's picture

There may be a subtle difference....

....between acceptance and nonrejecting, and it's this subtlety that's being pointed to rather than anything to do with words as such. If an event of acceptance is looked at closely, it can be noticed that it's not so much the presence of a person who is accepting something, but rather the absence of a person who is rejecting it. This is what makes acceptance not an act of will but rather of surrender. The person does not stand on the battlefield and declare his acceptance, he leaves the battlefield and is no longer present to declare or decide anything. He has detached and is no longer concerned with either acceptance or non-acceptance. Do you see the difference?

Phroggy | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 20:31
solo's picture

a matter of choice

Bliss or suffer in spiritual life or in life in general is a matter of choice, believe me, it's not an external arbitrary decree, we are victims of nothing.

There is pain and there is suffering and they are not the same - suffering is a choice to react to a pain by identifying with the pain drama and therefore to resist. Our mind has a lot of reasons to love suffering - for "him" it is still better to have something, whatever something, than to have nothing. The mind is terrified of the nothing, nothingness means for the mind nonexistence. This is why the mind is terrified from meditation, this is why the mind will welcome even inflictive emotions, just to have there something, to exist.

Bliss or suffer is a matter of choice. We can choose, just choose, even without acceptance, just choose to be blissful, just truly choose against the default choice of the mind, it's easier than you can imagine, you have the capability, you have this strength, just choose and the rest will follow.

solo | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 14:41
Phroggy's picture

Choose against the mind?

I was with you until the last paragraph. Though choice is ultimately illusion, it's rarely useful to function as though it is illusion while believing it is not, so that is accepted, but one cannot choose without acceptance, nor can a mind choose against the spontaneous choice of mind.

Aceptance becomes a part of the choice since the unwillingness to accept 'what is' can never result in happiness. That which seems to choose IS the mind, and there is not a chooser and then another mind that chooses. The imaginary split must be resolved and the mind must 'choose' acceptance or there is continuing conflict and pretense.

Phroggy | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 20:41
solo's picture

First of all, I agree with

First of all, I agree with you - acceptance is the foundation - it is like breathing - without it, no bliss, no choosing, no nothing.

When I had the vivid experience of choosing, I was already in a state of total acceptance, there was no much content anymore except of still a certain unhappiness (which I was accepting and living with). And then it dawned on me: there is still unhappiness because there is an old choosing within me to be unhappy, if you can call it so. I then chose to be happy or rather you can say that I un-chose my unhappiness and it vanished. This is the best I can describe it in words.

My explanation is that like acceptance which is actually a word representing undoing of something that the mind is doing by default (resisting), the "choosing of happiness" is maybe actually undoing of the mind's default doing of choosing unhappiness. But this is only an explanation and I don't see much value in it. My experience has been very clear, simple, vivid and with immediate results: the underlying unhappiness that accompanied me for years has disappeared since then. What a relief it was and still is!

solo | Thu, 11/27/2008 - 21:20
Phroggy's picture

Undoing, yes.

Thanks for that clear description. Yes, an undoing, and perhaps an important distinction. Mind naturally wants to do acceptance (which we can also call surrender) but the undoing of surrender has a distinct 'flavor' to it that makes it clear that mind did not cause it but rather got out of the way and stopped causing the struggle. It's a critical distinction to me, and a source of necessary humility. One finds that the entire spiritual 'process' is nothing more than getting out of the way; the ending of that which never was.

Phroggy | Fri, 11/28/2008 - 00:43
Mind's picture

Bliss and Suffering are two

Bliss and Suffering are two sides of the same coin for a spiritual seeker..where as Happiness and Un-happiness are two sides of the same coin for the materialistic....hehe confusing huh...both subjective and objective world have their own dualities....THE ULTIMATE TRUTH IS SILENCE ...THE SPACE..WHICH GOES ON EXPANDING

Mind | Mon, 02/02/2009 - 16:54
NIDHI PARKASH's picture

also knowledge

spiritual life must have to be filled up of feeling of the self-existence absolutely, absolute knowledge and absolute bliss.

NIDHI PARKASH | Fri, 08/28/2009 - 11:09
tiru's picture

Knowledge does not belong to this category

Knowledge is masturbation of the mind. Who is it the knows? Terminate it with all its accumulated knowledge. This way you will save the planet a lot of wasted energy.

tiru | Mon, 11/02/2009 - 08:59
NIDHI PARKASH's picture

> knowledge does not belong to this category

What is the basis on which you have said the knowledge is masturbation of mind and also of its category and how much categories? what is termination of its meant? whether its you imagination or have any kind of scientific applications? what is its scientific research and who are related to this research?

NIDHI PARKASH | Mon, 11/02/2009 - 12:27