Truth cannot be unfolded through relgion, god glorification and yoga

santthosh kumaar's picture



Average: 4 (1 vote)

It is impossible to search truth on the base of religion,god,yoga and ego. Religion,god,yoga and ego cannot transport the seeker towards reality where duality is mere illusion.

Religion and conceptual god and yoga and ego makes one remain permanently in experience of duality thus becomes obstacle in realizing the truth which is beyond.

Only .F.S provides the yardstick to know what is truth and what is not truth.

F.S TEACHINGS ARE NOT AGAINST RELIGION,SCRIPTURES,CONCEPTUAL GOD AND YOGA . F.S says they are part and parcel of experience of duality, which is mere illusion on the standpoint of the true self which is the spirit or Ataman.



madan_gautam's picture

Then what is the method for

Then what is the method for searching the truth.
OM

madan_gautam | Tue, 11/18/2008 - 09:23
Phroggy's picture

~

Ending all methods of searching.

Phroggy | Tue, 11/18/2008 - 17:48
madan_gautam's picture

Ending all methods of searching

Does a mother feed a baby without his/her crying?

madan_gautam | Wed, 11/19/2008 - 08:43
Phroggy's picture

<>

So, we must cry before Daddy God will feed us Truth? If that's not what you mean, then I don't understand the significance of the analogy.

The goal of the seeking should be to end the seeking. The Truth is already what you are, is already here and does not require anything from you. It is not hiding from you. Even the seeking is your Beingness seeking. How can it be found when you cannot get a millimeter away from it no matter where you go? What do you need to learn about it when there is nothing to know about it? What is it that causes the thought to arise, "I must seek Truth", if not Truth itself?

I don't begrudge the methods and the seeking, I'm simply saying it can be noticed that the 'goal' is to end the methods and the seeking. It is not to find Truth. Truth was never lost. Truth is what dreams of finding. Finding is simply the ending of the dream that something was lost.

Phroggy | Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:38
madan_gautam's picture

Daddy God

you have your spectacles on your nose and still you are not sure but searching for it.You have to search for that, only then you will remember or come to know that it is already on your nose or some body will let you know it.
There are two type of people ,one who without any practical experiences accept this and other who go practically and accept it.First one are without any change in them,only with theoretical aspect second with their own experiences.
First one are called scholars& second one are Enlightened.
OM

madan_gautam | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 06:05
Phroggy's picture

~

"you have your spectacles on your nose and still you are not sure but searching for it.You have to search for that, only then you will remember or come to know that it is already on your nose or some body will let you know it."

The difficulty with your analogy is that it allows for some actual thing that was lost and must be found, even if it is on your nose. In the case of Truth, it is not lost and cannot be found by the one seeking it. That's an important difference. That which is seeking IT is an illusion formed within IT, and so the seeker can never find. Furthermore, as long as the focus is on the seeking of something, the chances of the seeking, which is the sought, realizing itself is reduced. The focus of attention in this is critical. The seeking must end.

Phroggy | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 11:30
Omkaradatta's picture

Not just spiritual seeking

Not just spiritual seeking, but all seeking. The trouble here is that this "spirituality stuff" rarely seems to touch anyone's life, aside perhaps from periodic formal meditation practice. People still have this unmet desire inside, the sense that something is missing, a black hole of need and desire. This should be addressed, perhaps through simplifying one's life greatly, reducing the number of things that are sought after, even reducing one's personal possessions.

That's exactly what happened 'here'... I started limiting things, without even being much conscious of it, until there was practically nothing, until I was clinging to almost nothing and attached to almost nothing. Within such a small context, it seems 'awakening' can happen fairly easily. The trick could be in expanding that context again later (although one may not want to, and after 'awakening' it doesn't much matter - food & water is enough ;-).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 11:59
dan77's picture

this is just an intellectual

this is just an intellectual game of words of negating everything, it leads nowhere unless you are already in another dimension in which case you don't need it anymore. If it worked without methods then all these who are not in the spiritual field and thus deploy no method would be enlightened already and apparently they are not. It is ok to have methods, techniques and tricks and by experience these are working superbly.

dan77 | Wed, 11/19/2008 - 18:37
Phroggy's picture

!

"If it worked without methods then all these who are not in the spiritual field and thus deploy no method would be enlightened already and apparently they are not."

Seeking and methods designed to find ultimate peace and happiness have been going on since your early childhood. At the time, it looked more like comfort and safety, like Madan's baby crying, then it became something like popularity or success and financial security, maybe familly. The only difference now is that you call it spiritual seeking, but the goal of joy and peace has not changed since you began to walk upright.

This is the human condition. Everyone is seeking because everyone believes something is missing. What do your spiritual concepts tell you about whether there is really something missing? If nothing is missing, it is the belief that something is missing that needs to end, right? Perhaps there is benefit in noticing that the goal is to realize that the need to seek is the problem.

Seeking does not lead to finding, but to the end of seeking.
Questions do not lead to answers, but to the dissolving of the questions.
Struggling does not lead to success, but to the end of struggling.
Ignorance does not lead to knowledge, but to the end of ignorance.
The seeker does not find Truth, but rather loses himself.
Seek endings.

Phroggy | Wed, 11/19/2008 - 21:01
superwoman's picture

Sorry, to my feeling, the

Sorry, to my feeling, the last paragraph contains somewhat common simplistic generalized sweeping statements that we should be careful with. It is very easy and convenient to believe in them - in their sweeping form they are usually produced by our mind to justify its inherent laziness, a convenient excuse not to do anything except of intellectual analysis that the mind is addicted to and loves so much.

Truth as always lies in the context and in proportions. The way reality and the mind work is less simplistic and convenient. There are stages and cases in which effort and struggle are tricks of the mind and the ego, giving the mind no more than a gratification, strengthen the mind by creating conflict and thus contra-productive but in most cases they are critical and essential to spiritual advancement, especially when we are aware of these possible tricks of the mind. It is a total illusion propagated by the mind that without effort, something will happen. Not doing anything is NOT the right meaning of "You are not the doer", "Who is it that does" etc - it is just an ignorant naive distortion of the deep essence of these statements, a distortion generated by the mind for its own convenience and survival.

Yoga and Zen, for example, which yield solid spiritual results maybe more than any other path are based in some way on effort.

I think that we should always double check in real time our stands and beliefs, especially the strongest ones, to possibly be tricks of the mind. Those who are on the path for enough many years know that in retrospective we always find out that they are so.

superwoman | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 09:58
Phroggy's picture

Mind tricks

"Sorry, to my feeling, the last paragraph contains somewhat common simplistic generalized sweeping statements that we should be careful with. It is very easy and convenient to believe in them "

Please don't believe in them. Look to see if they are true, if you want to. As you see that they are true, then some endings can happen. Until then, you must continue with your methods and practices.

"It is a total illusion propagated by the mind that without effort, something will happen. Not doing anything is NOT the right meaning of "You are not the doer", "

Well, yes it is the right meaning, but you don't understand that doing and effort have been happening your whole life, and not just since you decided to seek spiritually. Effortlessness is more radical than you realize. Thinking is effort. Wanting, needing, desiring, hoping is effort. Hasn't that effort been going on your whole life? You cannot choose to end the effort, and so effort will be needed to come to the realization that no effort is needed. This is where your spirituality is going. Focus on where it is going and it can progress more quickly.

"I think that we should always double check in real time our stands and beliefs, especially the strongest ones, to possibly be tricks of the mind. Those who are on the path for enough many years know that in retrospective we always find out that they are so."

Yes, triple check, please. Enough years on the path will reveal to you that there is no path. It is another trick of mind, but don't walk any further than you need to.

Phroggy | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 11:48
madan_gautam's picture

Mind Tricks

Yes mind is very much tricky and when after following a path one does not get results then it says that for what we are looking is achieved already or same happens when one is hypnotized by one's theory that nothing is to be achieved with your efforts or any path. Some time even a lazy person says that what is to be achieved in end is already achieved.
If Truth is already achieved by every one & no need to be achieved further, then why so much sufferings and other related things are in this world,then world should be a heaven.
OM

madan_gautam | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 12:22
Omkaradatta's picture

Because...

Because the truth is over-laid by falsehood (maya). Truth is still there, just covered up. There's nothing to achieve but to realize that *all* achievement is false. If people have to try to achieve first to find that out, it's all well and good.

When snake is seen to be a rope, it's over. The spinning torch (of achievement, seeking, suffering) comes to a stop. Then truth is clearly seen to already have been there the whole time, only covered up by desire to achieve things.

Desires, fears, everything, all is caused by a need for future, using memory and imagination, using the mind. When that stops, truth is right "here and now" where it's always been.

Look more closely at the ancient texts -- you'll see the same thing I'm saying above, perhaps using slightly different words. Vedanta says atman is already brahman, we just have to get rid of the idea it isn't.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 13:11
madan_gautam's picture

snake & rope

>>>When snake is seen to be a rope, it's over. The spinning torch (of achievement, seeking, suffering) comes to a stop. Then truth is clearly seen to already have been there the whole time, only covered up by desire to achieve things.
to see the true nature of rope instead of snake one need the Divine eye(Third Eye) not these ordinary two.Maya is beyond these two eyes and can only be surpassed by the Divine Eye.One is not having that and only saying & saying does not make any sense.By closing the eyes cat does not run away for the pigeon, it is there and will kill him,like that without developing the third eye one can not see the true nature of Maya and can not go beyond it.Vichara(thinking of mind) leads one nowhere and it is really unrealistic to claim achievements without any source.
>>>>Vedanta says atman is already brahman, we just have to get rid of the idea it isn't.
By just accepting the words of Vedanta,one can not become Enlightened.He has to follow the path which all Rishi & Muni followed and were able to find this Truth.
First of all we have to find/recognize our Atman and only then we can be able to say same thing.Before that it is useless,just a child story.
OM

madan_gautam | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 13:31
Omkaradatta's picture

OK...

"Vichara(thinking of mind) leads one nowhere and it is really unrealistic to claim achievements without any source."

OK. Well, if I claim it, you (and others) can choose not to believe. After all, no source on Internet is verifiable, anybody could be lying.

All we have on the Net is thinking, words. Even posts telling about techniques are only words. So I go by that, and post what I like. People waste their time telling me it's a trick of mind, and that's OK, if they want to use time that way. I use it my way, you use it yours.

For anybody reading: If you don't want thinking, words or "mind tricks" don't come to the Internet. All you get here is thoughts.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 13:58
madan_gautam's picture

you use it yours

I say what i have experienced and what i am experiencing,
I am a practical man and can take anyone with me if he/she agree for that.I do not go by books or others words but by my experiences.
Each one has to be with his/her truth and not with others.
This is my way.I do not have any problems with others way ,but discussions should be there for others benefit.I do not see any harm in it.
Each individual is unique and need unique technique/theory or no theory.
The goal is Truth,now choose your way or no way,but one should achieve Truth.But an illusion of Truth should not be there.
If you have achieved the Truth without any path and followings, then its OK,be happy with it.But a second thought should be there and self analysis should be there again and again to test that Truth.
OM

madan_gautam | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 14:03
Phroggy's picture

~

"If you have achieved the Truth without any path and followings, then its OK,be happy with it."

You mischaracterize what has been said because you don't understand. Tim and I have both said that if the path and practices are necessary, then they are, but the search cannot end in finding Truth, but only in realizing it was never hidden, never other than that which is seeking, and so the seeking (and the seeker) must be realized for the misunderstanding that it is.

Phroggy | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 20:30
Phroggy's picture

~

"If Truth is already achieved by every one & no need to be achieved further, then why so much sufferings and other related things are in this world,then world should be a heaven."

It's not correct to say "Truth is already achieved". Nothing acheives Truth. Everything already IS Truth. There is a delusion in place. That which you truly are has fallen into it's own dream of form and come to believe that it is this time/space bound form only. This will, of course, result in suffering, but it is Beingness itself that is here seeking itself. There is nothing else to seek or to be sought. If Self is seeking Self, where must it go to find? What must it learn to be itSelf? How much effort does it take to get to exactly here and now where Self already is, fully and completely?

It is the delusion only that must end; the delusion that Self has gone missing and must be found. The delusion that the seeking is not already the Self....seeking.

I will not say effort will not be needed or practices will not need to be done. I say that it is already done and that the destiny of every seeker on whatever path, is to never arrive at his destination, because everyone is already home and will come to realize that. When that is realized, the seeker and the path vanish. They never existed to begin with. The goal is put an end to the seeker, and along with it, all seeking. There can be no other goal but to end what never was. What IS has always been.

Phroggy | Thu, 11/20/2008 - 20:17
madan_gautam's picture

Everyone is already home

>>>Everyone is already home....
Yes everyone is already at home.If this is his/her practical & personal experience,then it is good and true for him/her and make sense, that only comes after following a path.If the mud(ore) having traces of gold say that he is gold then it is foolish,mud has to go under the process and to be refined in fire to extract the gold from it,then only that pure gold can say that he is gold.That mud has to follow the path,the process to become gold.
If it is only a bookish knowledge or some one Else's experience/truth one follows without experiencing self,then it is just deceiving oneself & nothing more than this.
OM

madan_gautam | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 04:55
Omkaradatta's picture

Yes

Yes, I think both Phroggy and I agree with you on that. If it's just book-knowledge rather than "third eye" knowledge (direct seeing) then it's empty. There's no need to keep saying it, that much is obvious.

You can stop arguing now about moot points. If something bothers you, argue it with yourself. Everybody is saying and doing what they want to.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 06:42
madan_gautam's picture

If something bothers you, argue it with yourself

Sorry to say but same applies on you not me.
If discussion is argument as per you, then i do not find any reason for your presence here.
>>>>Everybody is saying and doing what they want to.
OK it is you and your choice say whatever you want to say,who is stopping you,but do not stop others as you are doing here.
Why the presence of others giving you frustration/trouble here?That shows your immaturity.
>>>>Moot points
What are moot points & what are genuine/realistic point let the others decide & let we carry on our business.
Such dictations/advocacy are not welcome.This shows something is missing in your inside and you are trying each and every time to hide that and you are still in search of Truth but remember that Truth can not be attained/achieved through arguments,it comes through surrender,faith and devotion and sincerity.
My best wishes are always with you in your search of Truth
OM

madan_gautam | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 07:37
Omkaradatta's picture

Just

"This shows something is missing in your inside and you are trying each and every time to hide that and you are still in search of Truth"

I'm just tired of your declarations like the above, that's all. You don't know what's inside others, yet you pretend to. Instead of directing others toward themselves (as a good guru does) you try to take over for them, try to become a crutch for them, even if they don't want it! This is poor guru-ing, in my opinion.

But do what you like. I'm done replying to your comments, there are much better ways to spend time. You are just insecure, wanting to make everyone else look wrong. Enjoy it.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 09:24
abra's picture

Please you two spare us this

I think both of you miss something in your inside and outside. It takes two to tango and to conduct ego fights. I am turning a little bit impatient (as I am sure do others) with your continuous childish quarrels here completely out of context of the original posts disturbing and spoiling to so many others who are silently here to grow and learn. This is not the first time you do it.

How can you two be so selfish? If you haven't yet reached the basic spiritual step in which you are able to count to 10 and exercise awareness and control of your mind and ego at least conduct these irrelevant fights in your private messages. Why smear the blog posts?

I think this website is the same as a church, a shrine, the house of a guru. It is just virtual but has the same value, energy and sacredness. Would you dare to behave in such a manner in those other locations?

What is the worth of claiming yourself a spiritual person and discussing divine ideas and philosophies if in practice you are exercising complete unawareness? Don't you see the irony? Don't you see the urgency?

Please!

abra | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 10:02
Omkaradatta's picture

Sorry...

"How can you two be so selfish?"

Sorry. I (for one) am through with it, for good. It's impossible even to reply to his postings without some ego being dragged in, so I give up.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 10:07
madan_gautam's picture

Why smear the blog posts

Thanks for your kind words.But who is jumping every where can be seen from the past records.They have made a habit of chasing unnecessarily.It is good if taken in neutral way but why it is being taken in personal way?For every action there is reaction,it is Law of Universe.
I hope now they will come to end after your intervention, as they have not on my several requests.
Discussion is good but not personal comments.
Thanks once again
OM

madan_gautam | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 11:37
madan_gautam's picture

Just

First of all a GURU is GURU and nothing like bad or good.There is no such theory of bad or good in case of a GURU,correct yourself here.
>>>>You are just insecure, wanting to make everyone else look wrong. Enjoy it.
These words are for you.Thanks for explaining yourself.
OM

madan_gautam | Fri, 11/21/2008 - 11:58
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

The Method

The method of finding truth is to free one from preconceived notions based on the method they were raised to believe things.

To achieve that end, one has to consider everything they believe in to be incorrect and reconsider themselves based on the life of everything around them except what man has made. [Later the are may return to it without attachment to it providing them with an objective view of it.]

So long as man believe themselves above the other beings on earth's sphere, we will never be able to find the truth. Once we humble ourselves to their level of living we free ourselves of all of the conditioning imposed upon us by civilization living, eliminating right and wrong, god and devil, and the other many abstracts civilized living demand we cling to.

To comprehend truth there has to the integrating science, math, nature, evolution and religion into a whole and get a vision something like the following of cycle upon cycle and layer upon layer.

Existence is a whole, there is only one thing to represent the whole and that is zero. Why? Because all of the other nine numbers when added, subtracted, multiplied or divided by itself does not equal itself. It is the only number without a positive or negative counterparts they are integrated within it. Therefore I name existence Zeroverse rather than a one or universe.

Look at nature where we find cycles upon cycles, the infinitely smallest to the infinitely largest. The smallest part of matter we [will] called the atom. Our planet is an atom with the moon orbiting it. Our solar system is a larger atom which goes around something larger making it is an even larger atom. Everything we know of can be broken down to atoms and yet recognized as what it is. Now we get the picture, everything is a type of the whole.

Now call trees' wood a symbol of the life-force, energy or the ghost of all things. Call the leaves the body of all things. Call seasonal trees the symbol for reincarnation and evergreen trees the symbol for everlasting life. Use the metamorphosis as the means for man to evolve from being a temporary being into being an eternal being and we have an evolution of the ghost but not the physical forms.

There is still an intelligence behind it all. Every living entity consumes another living entity to maintain itself makes the law of reaping what is sown, or karma, valid. Should I killed a deer to make a trophy of its 9 point racked head, that had to happen to me when I was a deer, therefore, some form of intelligence has to see to it that every ghost incarnates as the very beings they sow any act upon. Intelligence would have to oversee every ghost incarnating as every attribute of each species in order to imprint memory of that attribute upon it. Once the ghost incarnates as every attribute of its species it evolves to another until it reaches man.

The word man has the definition of a mind capable of comprehending all things, thus, once the ghost has incarnated as every known attributes of man it goes through the metamorphosis to become an eternal being. It is then able to change into every form of existence it has passed through and back to any other at will. It becomes what we call angels and operate on a higher vibration than man of earth are able to recognize as it prepare to move to other planes of existence. The rings in trees' wood and layers of the onion is the natural symbol for existence's manifested state, earth, and like places in existence, are the ball in the middle.

Because existence operates in a cycle and everything within it has to discarnate, it does also. Somewhere in the heart of existence is what is called the book of life. What it has is every ghost listed by name, if you will, and place in existence which the ghost at the peak of comprehension during the Zeroverse's discarnating memorizes so when it become the ghost of it every ghost will be in its exact place so that no ghost will incarnate existence head of another.

After bringing existence into being, upon discarnating existence the ghost goes to the end of the incarnating line while the one at the end of it reads the book of life preparing to incarnate existence. Thus, existence maintain itself without an end.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "NatureBoy"--

Elijah_NatureBoy | Thu, 12/03/2009 - 13:51
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

Truth Searching

The only way to determine truth is to separate one from the social way of life and live in observation, participation and reasoning with the natural, undomesticated forms of life around us. Civilization's gods and religions are based on good and evil, nature is based on how and when to use all things. Once we have had nature to teach us truth, through our own experimentation and reasoning, we can say we know truth.

Someone who have lived only in nature without having lived in civilization does not know truth either, they have not experience with the illusion of civilization's good and evil.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "NatureBoy"--

Elijah_NatureBoy | Mon, 02/22/2010 - 15:20
RandomStu's picture

> It is impossible to search

> It is impossible to search truth on the base of
> religion,god,yoga and ego.

If you want to search truth, you don't need to immediately jump to some path or technique (religion, god, yoga, F.S. teaching, or some other idea). Alternately, you can inquire into this "I want" itself.

WHY do you search truth? Everything is truth; why the desire to search for something that's already appeared? If there's no need to search, what then? If you're hungry, eat; if someone else is hungry, give them food.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/booboo.htm

RandomStu | Tue, 09/29/2009 - 18:37
santthosh kumaar's picture

Re: It is impossible to search

Santthosh
Until one bases on the ‘I’ he will never get the truth. Until one thinks himself he is an individual apart from the world he will never be able to know what is real and what is unreal. The dream becomes unreal when waking rakes place and waking becomes unreal when one becomes aware of the fact that ‘I’ is not the self. Thus inquiring on the base of ‘I’, which is the false self, will keeps one in the realm of intellectuality.

In the realm of the true self /spirit, there is no search, no enlightenment, and no self realization, because the true self/soul alone exists all else is illusion. Until one thinks he is the doer everything in the duality appears to be real. The moment one becomes aware the seer [subject] and the seen [object] are one is essence the duality is lost, and whatever prevails is the ultimate truth.

If one has an intense urge then only he will search for truth. The ultimate truth cannot be approached until one becomes aware of the fact that, whatever appeared is false and the formless substance and witness of the appearance is real.

If one has no intense urge he thinks - everything is truth on the base of false self, not realizing he is basing his-self on the false self /ego [‘I’] and experiences the duality as reality, and passes his judgments on the false physical self, which is mere intellectuality. The non-dual truth is beyond intellectuality.

When deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning reveal the fact that, neither the body nor the ‘I’ is the true self, then what is the use of inquiring on the base of false self, and imagining and concluding the truth. Thus it is necessary to know the true fact that, ‘I’ is not the true self, but the true self is the formless knower/witness of the ‘I’.

Thus, whatever conclusion, understanding and assimilation based on the false self [‘I’] is bound to be falsehood. Therefore, discussing and arguing on the base of false self is like –trying to drain the ocean drop by drop.

santthosh kumaar | Tue, 02/23/2010 - 03:23
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

What is F.S.?

I have no idea what F.S. is therefore I don't know if that's what I've used or not. I have found no satisfactory definition for ego therefore I can't speak concerning what part it plays in the search for truth. However, I do agree that religion as generally practiced, the belief in god and most yoga practices keeps one in a dual mentality.

The most common definition for religion is "a belief in god" which automatically carry its opposer, the devil, with it keeping one in the dual mind. The definition I have discovered for religion, "a way of life which teaches the practitioner the purpose for existence," eliminates the dual mind because it eliminates good and evil and require one to unbiasedly observe, participate and reason in determining the purpose for everything. Therefore, god and religion ate to be eliminated from the search of truth.

Most yoga practices are only that, practices that don't provide a need for reasoning beyond the practice. There is a yoga practice which require living objectively and exploration for identifying consequences leading one into reasoning over and beyond the common carnal reasons.

What, then, is truth?

Truth is that explanation of existence realized when one unite all that's known of earth, including myths and scriptures, together in determining how existence works.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--Elijah "NatureBoy"-- Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @
http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm

Elijah_NatureBoy | Sun, 07/17/2011 - 12:54