What if we delude ourselves with all that spirituality?

banana's picture

Average: 4.3 (6 votes)

What if we delude ourselves with all that spirituality?

What if we bet on the wrong horse and there is nothing true in the spiritual doctrines we believe in?

What if that which cannot be proved does not exist?

What if only what we perceive with our senses exists?

What if there is nothing beyond?

What if maya is not maya but real?

What if all these gurus and teachers we count on their testimonies were all phonies or/and mentally unbalanced?

What if we waste our time and one-time lives on nonsense?

Oh God!

mika's picture


I have this mood of thoughts from time to time.

I had used to hate it but I later realized that it is important and that we, hardcore spiritualists, tend to suppress it because such thoughts do not comply with the importance this spirituality has in our life.

It is extremely important to honor and accept this kind of thoughts. Mother Teresa had a period of decades with such thoughts and apparently didn't know how to cope with them.

I think part of the role of such thoughts is to even break our attachment to spirituality, maybe one of the last stations and the hardest of all.

I'm curious to read what others have to say and share about this because I think it is a critical issue that is not discussed much.

mika | Mon, 09/07/2009 - 13:10
Phroggy's picture

Yes, in my understanding

Yes, in my understanding Mother Theresa apparently had an awakening of the heart, and through her belief system she came to believe that Jesus was asking her to do something. In spite of her tremendous faith, she felt abandoned as she wasn't actually being asked to do anything. The love was real, the belief system within which her faith moved was not. The questions being asked here are valid. All beliefs are to be questioned.

Phroggy | Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:11
avi's picture

It's a different case

She is referring to something else. It appears that in Mother Theresa's last decades of life, she lost her faith and belief. She used to write about it secretly to her priest friend and asked specifically that these letters will kept secret forever. But he published them after her death.

avi | Tue, 09/08/2009 - 15:44
Phroggy's picture

That's what I'm saying. She

That's what I'm saying. She had a crisis of faith because her belief system (Catholicism) led her to create a false story around her 'awakening' that turned out not to be true, but she struggled with letting it go and following only her heart which, unlike most of us, had already been purified. Following the ignorance of her belief system is what caused the conflict.

Likewise, most here have grasped a false set of beliefs that will ultimately confuse and betray them, but it will not be 'God' who has betrayed them. I wish for this failure to come quickly so that they can move beyond it.

Phroggy | Wed, 09/09/2009 - 21:40
michaelmorley61's picture


Its a very good point you make.

When ego is no more and pure awareness arises then there is no duality (no it is, or... it is not) or, is it? or isnt it?

As long as we identify with our present three dimensional conceptual framework then doubts will arise as as a result of duality.

Best wishes to you. Michael.

michaelmorley61 | Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:40
avi's picture

A calculated decision

If indeed there is nothing metaphysical then all this life is meaningless anyway, a closed arbitrary game.

So I make this calculated decision to bet on the possibility that carries meaning and something beyond in its underlying doctrine. On the worst case, if it is found at the end of the day that this promising option was a lie, I still didn't lose anything because the other skeptical option anyway didn't promise anything in the first place.

avi | Tue, 09/08/2009 - 15:52
Omkaradatta's picture

No "we"

There is no "we" here, never has been.

There is the reader/writer of this message.

If "this stuff" isn't real to one, perhaps one has been pursuing the wrong line of questioning, going down the wrong road. For example, imagining a "we, in this together" when in truth there is only one appearing as many.


Omkaradatta | Tue, 09/08/2009 - 16:02
Omkaradatta's picture

P.S. (followup)

P.S. the fact that there's only One appearing as many is in fact completely, utterly, dead obvious... but everybody is avoiding the aloneness this signifies.


Omkaradatta | Tue, 09/08/2009 - 16:45


if spirituality starts to delude then the light of science may be followed for the dispelling the delusions created from spirituality.spirituality is useless if someone has not got high way road leading to god.in the lack of self realization spirituality may seem delusion, dry philosophy; hence only self-realization is important and all other matters are the status of secondary.

NIDHI PARKASH | Wed, 09/09/2009 - 10:58
RandomStu's picture

Spirituality Beliefs

> What if we delude ourselves with all that spirituality?

It's helpful to be clear and precise in our thinking. EXACTLY what is in question here, when you refer to "all that spirituality"?

Likely, when you say "spirituality," you're referring to a belief-system. If that's the case, then it's good that you're questioning it. It's helpful to at least be open to the option of throwing belief-systems into the garbage, and instead attending to our own experience.


RandomStu | Thu, 10/22/2009 - 17:57


Belief is main glue to get sticking either to any organization or person/persons or spiritual system or non-spiritual system. If we become more and more attached to our belief then that becomes part and parcel of our our life as having been to you boo etc. Atoms of subtlety of belief enter in the nucleus of our billions and billions cells which start to mention the truth in new spheres in ours; in our inner laboratories; even it is being pure science which can be testify through Vippassana. Vippassana is chosen by myself because you have mentioned Buddha in your Profile so it is easy to understand through the system to which you have been already attached.
Spirit means a person's soul as distinct from his bodies; something's characteristic qualities. Spirituality is the subject of studying and experience of this subject. But 2 other more elaborated words instead of these two can be used which are divine and divinity.
No problem if someone doesn't like to believe in the matter of spirituality but, I say, he must believe in Modern Science for the realization of truth through intensive investigations through the methods of Sciences. I hereby desire to quote first noble prize winner in Asia; Dr. C.V. Raman to whom Science was his God and work was religion, who believed and said that new discoveries confirm the existence of God, if there is God we have to find out Him in this universe. This was his call to invite young scientists for the research on divinity through Modern Sciences.

NIDHI PARKASH | Fri, 10/23/2009 - 03:56
Gilana's picture

What if....

I can see how easy it is to question...you must be a young person with so much to loose...

I asked myself your questions and the only thing that made sense is: what satisfies your heart most? Longest (hopefully finally.) When you come to that, do you still have questions?

Have you resolved these questions since your first post?

Gilana | Wed, 12/02/2009 - 02:40

> what if

Hello my my good sister,
No questioning but only efforts to express truth which can be experienced only and such truth may be beyond words. When such truth may be under experience beyond words and speaking then only unique realization may happen. This is to be spoken in view of to make others acquainted through any mode of communication as love etc. Languages are the mode of communication. Unselfish love is the language of saints of highest cadre in this world as Jesus and Buddha etc. Due to personal imperfections, among them many may be of mine also as example, but realization of truth is very, very genuine and this truth is our the most consciousness, minutest of our existence as seed of consciousness spreading from the minutest seed form to the biggest form of existence.
Our true existence is very connected link among us all as the God which is elemental stuff of our soul.

Endless are questions, so answers also; which is the work and enjoyment of scholars and philosophers etc. but realization of soul is the highest goal of human life.

visit at: www.yoganewyork.org

NIDHI PARKASH | Thu, 12/03/2009 - 15:27
Gilana's picture

Beloved Nidhi

Truly God is found flying not in the mudane words of the limited, but in the vaulted expanse of infinity. Briliant and all consuming, the love expands and contracts to create the illusions of this world and those like it. But what else do we have to work with? If I wanted to say to you, "Brother, I see in your eyes the unlimited, the existance of infity" would you recive my gift as it is sent? Or would you wonder....along with wondering come the words, even of the angels, they are not unhindered enough to convey that which was felt and wished to convey. Trying to convey beyond words is enjoyable in that it puts me in contact with the unlimited, but even with intent embedded, do you understand me?

At the same time, I enjoy the attempts, yours and mine, immensely. Namastenamastenamaste unending bliss to you!

Gilana | Thu, 12/03/2009 - 18:18

Love begets love

Hello sister Cheylash,
Thank you for your efforts for understanding the matter of Godhead which is our supreme goal for achieving. Your gift as being it is is heartily accepted and you are again thanks for this gift. Words/language may be insufficient at some stage for expression the truth but there is also other mode of understanding which can not be spoken in language and there is the manifestation of wisdom to understand this truth without the help of language; which the state called self-realization because soul is the real power which speaks beyond the words/language. Trying to convey beyond words has been the matter of enjoyment and keeping continue such try leads the person to feel the truth of our soul which is again can be spoken as self-realization. Your connecting to unlimited may be myself tried to understand. Our connection to Primordial energy(Kundalini-Shakti) is our connectivity to the unlimited. If you are more interested in this divine aspect of unlimited then you may visit the web-sites of sahaja yoga and also connect personally at sahaja yoga centers available in USA.
visit at: www.sahajayoga.org


NIDHI PARKASH | Fri, 12/11/2009 - 17:43
RandomStu's picture

Re: Belief

> Belief is main glue to get sticking either to any
> organization or person/persons or spiritual system
> or non-spiritual system.

Not for me. There are a number of people I'm loyal to, people who I'd want to help through any life difficulty, etc. These connections have very little to do with any beliefs they hold. Rather, my connection with other people and groups are build on what we DO.

If someone ACTS with kindness, that builds friendship, etc. Yes, some people do it differently, and connect only with people who share certain beliefs. I find relationships built on what we do together to be more solid and satisfying.


RandomStu | Wed, 12/02/2009 - 19:15

> Re:Belief

Hello my nice brother,
Belief is main glue to stick--------------- means to hold devotion to ones own faiths which is ideal for devotee just as example as Jesus Christ to His devotees.
VISIT AT; www.sahajayoga.org

NIDHI PARKASH | Thu, 12/03/2009 - 16:10
Gilana's picture

Truth is only valuable if you find it

My Master says: Every once in a while the urge to "walk away" comes to everybody. It's human, it's the way the mind works. The more vulnerable you become, the more the mind tries to stop you. Use the thoughts as learning, deepening tools---ask the mind, "Why? What will I get?"

--What if we delude ourselves with all that spirituality?
Did you hurt anyone? Did it make you a better or worse person?

--What if we bet on the wrong horse and there is nothing true in the spiritual doctrines we believe in?
Accept that you can be wrong, you can be made a fool of. (the beauty in that is, everybody loves a fool.) Reject the false teaching, step back and observe. What can you see that is true?

--What if that which cannot be proved does not exist? Go ahead...disprove it. Disprove it all! But be honest.

--What if only what we perceive with our senses exists?
Then we are wrong. So? Did you hurt anyone? If you wonder, take Nidhi's advice...go the scientific route. Disprove all the "beliefs" you can. But be honest.

--What if there is nothing beyond?
Then there is just you.

--What if maya is not maya but real? Good. Find the real.

--What if all these gurus and teachers we count on their testimonies were all phonies or/and mentally unbalanced?
A true guru will find the real in you. That which cannot be disputed.

--What if we waste our time and one-time lives on nonsense?
How else would you want to waste your time?

note: These are only my answers. There are infinite other answers. The final advice is: Find the truth, so that you, rather than "those other guys" really know it for yourself.

Osho said: There is no God. This is not a belief--I know there is no God.

Go ahead - prove him right or prove him wrong. But find the truth for yourself.

Gilana | Thu, 09/16/2010 - 17:59
Nitashaartist's picture

dont waste your life

actually there is NOTHING , beyond.ALL IS in NOTHING.

and do exactly as you wish to.
and definitely dont belive what you have not actually yourself experienced.
I have heard My Guru Yogi Ashwini , say to people, 'what God? you are not even aware of your own body ! what other level are you talking about?'..He clearly says, First yog-union, is with your own body , once body is functioning at optimum level and your medicine intake-for anything at all-comes to zero. then we will talk of something ahead. till then BODY , your own body is top priority ,to get into perfect working. NO PAINS, NO PROBLEMS,NO AILMENTS,NO MEDICINES, NO DOCTORS, NO ALTERNATE TREATMENTS. none of this , only well functioning body that digests EVERYTHING, you wish to eat. no restrictions on diet, calories, etc.etc.
once this is achieved , then ......


Nitashaartist | Thu, 09/23/2010 - 07:05