Spiritual experiences with MDMA

banana's picture



Average: 4.6 (25 votes)

I am about to try MDMA (the active ingredient in ecstasy) for the first time. I am interested in the spiritual and psychological applications of it.

I read at http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06133spi.html the famous article of MAPS organization about the spiritual uses of MDMA in traditional religions that describe its benefits in terms of meditation as well as personal development.

I would be grateful to hear personal experiences in that aspect and if you have recommendations and tips.

Please, spare me the criticism - I am familiar with the opinion that it is better without substances. I have a different approach - I am willing to test anything from mother nature and/or father laboratory as long as it is not physically addictive and as long as it doesn't turn into a habit.

Aug 1st, 2009 -

I attach a PDF with the fascinating detailed research of Lynne Watson and Jerome Beck of the Institute of Scientific Analysis in San Francisco, titled "New Age Seekers: MDMA Use as an adjunct to Spiritual Pursuit".

See my comment about this research below.

AttachmentSize
New Age Seekers: MDMA Use as an adjunct to Spiritual Pursuit - PDF1.29 MB


john's picture

Spiritual benefits of MDMA

You get a taste of what it means universal love. It feels like the glimpse of samhadi that sometimes dawns after extensive meditation sessions.

There are no hallucinations, loss of control or paranoia. Just a profound serene state of what is felt as should be our natural state.

For spiritual purposes, pure MDMA is preferable than xta, you don't need the speeds and other garbage mixed in xta.

john | Sat, 02/21/2009 - 10:43
abra's picture

love

You are overflowing with oceans of love, rivers of love, pure unadulterated plain love, you understand why Ammachi is compelled to hug and give the love, you must give it, many are not willing to accept but you are compelled, you beg them to accept, love is pouring like hell from your chest, you cannot contain it all, you are astonished to find out that love is the essence, you once tended to believe that the essence is beyond but you realize it cannot, it is all, you understand for the first time why they say it is god. You realize that this is crude spirituality in essence and in action, that all the rest was and will be dry bones.

abra | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 22:33
zoya's picture

mdma

With mdma, you learn what it really means to be in the now.

You learn what it really means to be love.

Some also get paranormal abilities during the rolling like sensing others and telepathy.

zoya | Mon, 02/23/2009 - 13:27
Omkaradatta's picture

Recommend

I would just recommend to allow yourself to experience it fully, without worries... for anything can be spiritual, anything can be an opening to new ways of seeing. Spirituality isn't separate from life. Substances can help show us our capacity within, show us that all of this really comes from within, not outside.

Be careful, and enjoy ;-)...

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Mon, 02/23/2009 - 14:05
happy together's picture

I totally agree

I totally agree with what you wrote!

I would though add that I feel it is better to stay away from the very few substances that are physically addictive.

MDMA is a great blessing for having a taste of what divine love is. I couldn't believe before that something like this was possible.

I would also add that it is better to use it to have the taste, conviction and motivation to be able to naturally be in the state rather than as a constant means to be in the state.

happy together | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 00:11
carlito santo's picture

Thanks

Thank you happy and omkardatta for putting it so frankly and kindly. Many need, as I once needed, such words to cast the institutional propoganda in order to be able to discriminate and then dare to try it.

Love :-)

carlito santo | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 10:30
mayasurfer's picture

I disagree

Drugs might be an important stepping stone for some people. It was for me. But my experience is that it is impossible to become enlightened with drugs. They confuse the mind and leave you bewildered. You might experience all sorts of psychedelic experiences of unity and God and unconditional love...but also of extreme paranoia and fear and hatred...but true clarity in the Here and Now is impossible. There is no need for drugs, the "highest" you can ever BE is where you are, it's so simple, why complicating it so much. On top of it it is extremely dangerous. Especially LSD is dangerous, it can trigger latent schizophrenia. I have seen it, the girl eventually committed suicide. Be careful, ok.

mayasurfer | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 10:31
Omkaradatta's picture

Reply

"But my experience is that it is impossible to become enlightened with drugs. They confuse the mind and leave you bewildered."

Not all of them. Nor is one continuously bewildered, i.e. high all the time :-p.

P.S. how can your *experience* be that it's impossible to become enlightened with drugs? Did drugs prevent you from becoming enlightened, followed by your immediate enlightenment after you quit them? ;-).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 17:32
mayasurfer's picture

drugs

Thanks Omkar, wonder what drugs don't confuse or leave you bewildered? I always felt a bit strange after taking drugs, certainly not "enlightenend". But I had no idea what enlightenment was 30 years ago, when I took drugs last. So I shouldn't use that word. May be things are different now? I shouldn't generalize...may be there are some people who actually become enlightenend through drugs just like some people become enlightenend through meditation, yoga, Pranayama, Tantra, Osho, whatever. I had all sorts of strange experiences with drugs, some very powerful and very scary, some extremely beautiful, but an enlightenment experience ..never. May be I thought a few times "WOW, this must be it" but in hindsight I know it was absolutely nothing like it. There was always an ego lurking somewhere, knowing that it is only a temporary, drug induced experience. So on one hand I took drugs and they were an important stepping stone and a powerful trigger for the seed to keep growing towards the light...but on the other hand -in hindsight- I can say it is also true that drugs (and all my reading, yoga, meditation etc.) prevented me from becoming enlightened. I feel a bit that taking drugs- and also all the techniques I used- were a bit like getting to the top of Mt.Everest by helicopter, you are not acclimatised and can't stay and you are not even on Mt.Everest..I took drugs in the sixties and then took up yoga and meditation in the seventies and then brought up 2 children in the eighties and nineties and only for the last few years I am free again to move "on" into the "Now". I'm still a beginner but I have absolutely no more desire or need to take drugs and even my attraction to yoga and meditation have gone. All that is left is the Now in all it's extraordinary simplicity. I have never experienced such "High" when I was "high".

mayasurfer | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 22:04
Phroggy's picture

~

"I'm still a beginner but I have absolutely no more desire or need to take drugs and even my attraction to yoga and meditation have gone. All that is left is the Now in all it's extraordinary simplicity. I have never experienced such "High" when I was "high"."

Wonderful. To me, this shows a spiritual maturity to see the boundaries of all of this that we talk about here and move beyond self directed experience into a more subtle realm where the clamor of the 'spiritual circus' dies down and something other than mind is ALLOWED to move quietly and powerfully.

Phroggy | Tue, 03/03/2009 - 20:20
Phroggy's picture

I agree with your disagreement

I have not tried the drugs, and so my perspective is based on my intuition of what is needed rather than practical experience. Awakening is not about experience, and though clarity is valuable, it's not even about seeing 'what Is' because 'what Is' is what you are and was never hiding to begin with. How can the Truth of what you are hide from you? The same way we hide everything from ourselves through unconsciousness, and so what does it mean to reveal 'what Is' to an unconscious person through some drug induced experience? It simply becomes another experience for the unconscious individual to attach to.

Awakening begins with becoming conscious. From there, perhaps it's about the willingness to see beyond consciousness itself. There's nobody to cause any of that.

Phroggy | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 22:17
Omkaradatta's picture

Comment

> what does it mean to reveal 'what Is' to an unconscious
> person through some drug induced experience?

I dunno if anyone ever claimed a drug could "reveal what Is", but any life events/experiences can promote allowing ourselves to see it. Drugs included.

Omkaradatta | Thu, 02/26/2009 - 23:14
slenten's picture

some questions

Phroggy: Awakening is not about experience.
It's not even about seeing what is.
'What Is' is what you are.
The truth of what you are is 'what Is'
We hide everything from ourselves through unconsciousness.
Awakening begins with becoming conscious and a willingness to see beyond consciousness.
There is nobody to cause any of that.

slenten:
Is consciousness an experience and therefore not the beginning of awakening?
Is 'what Is' an experience and therefore not awakening?
What do you mean by 'what Is'? Is it the continuous now as experienced through
consciousness? What do you mean by unconsciousness? Is it the intrusion of thoughts which cloud the experience of now? And most of all, what is beyond consciousness, is that awakening? Can we be said to be awake and conscious if we are beyond it? Does consciousness include unconsciousness? If we become unconscious to consciousness are we beyond it and have become nobody? Does nobody use conscious willingness to move beyond consciousness?

slenten | Sun, 03/01/2009 - 23:45
Phroggy's picture

~

Hi Slenten
The mind is naturally biased toward experiencing, and it's common to dismiss conceptual understanding in favor of 'actual' experience. This experience is given the seal of truth and yet it's experience that tells us we are separate, in control, that time and space are objective realities, and yet none of this is so. Experience may very well give us a taste of a 'greater' reality, or it may actually be utter fantasy; one mind state in an endless set of mind states. All manner of experiences have been reported in meditations and under the influence of drugs, and it's useful to recognize that experience never ceases to be an invention of Consciousness and suddenly becomes Truth, no matter how powerful and 'real' it might seem.

So not only are the conceptual concoctions of mind not to be trusted, but also the experiences that eventuate from that mental activity. We call it Truth realization rather than Truth experience because it's a whole different 'paradigm' of knowingness that happens beyond mind. From my perception (not experience) the difference is that experience happens in time and must recalled, while realization is timeless and is not stored in memory as an event but rather observed directly.

The reason I say it's not about seeing 'what Is' is that Truth is not seen to play out as on a movie screen. The question must arise, 'to whom is it playing out?' What is observing 'What Is?' The Truth is that you ARE What Is, and you cannot observe yourself. You can only BE that, and ARE that. The observer/observed is the continuation of dualistic illusion.

Phroggy | Mon, 03/02/2009 - 03:49
banana's picture

experiences, tips and recommendations

hey guys, i asked for experiences, tips and recommendations (and got valuable ones) - Please do these other discussions elsewhere (maybe another thread in this drugs and spirituality forum). I want to keep this important post of mine focused on the above for the benefit of others.

Thanks!

banana | Mon, 03/02/2009 - 09:05
slenten's picture

riffing on it

yes, you're right, banana. we like to riff and get off topic. but really, what we were discussing does include all experiences and experience in general.

the saunders paper is interesting. use the drug for a purpose, it may provide provide lasting insight.

as far as value, i think phroggy brings home the bacon:
All manner of experiences have been reported in meditations and under the influence of drugs, and it's useful to recognize that experience never ceases to be an invention of Consciousness and suddenly becomes Truth, no matter how powerful and 'real' it might seem.

that's something to grok while you're high. i think the operative phrase in the saunders paper is mystical state: the influence of MDMA produces a tendency for attention to drift off. There is also a danger of squandering the experience by being trapped in euphoric feelings, rather than reaching into a spiritual realm.

there's your challenge, keeping the eurphoria off and really reaching for insight.

slenten | Tue, 03/03/2009 - 17:17
Phroggy's picture

~

Experience, tips and recommendations is what's being offered here. My experience is that folks are easily attached to mind states and want to repeat them rather than going deeper. My recommendation is that you identify the difference between an experience of a mind state and genuine insight. The egoic state is also a mind state.

That "important post" of yours may be useful or it may be a dangerous trap for many. That's a matter for open, uncensored discussion and why would this not be the perfect place to do that? I'm not in agreement with those who wish to 'own' their blogs and maintain the 'purity' of their opinions on a public forum.

Phroggy | Tue, 03/03/2009 - 20:01
sazzel's picture

i totally agree with you,

i totally agree with you, drugs might give you some sort of bliss for a few hours but afterward u feel so lost and many times depressed.

sazzel | Wed, 09/21/2011 - 22:48
lilian's picture

This is part of the process

The feeling afterwards is part of the process and bad as it might be sometimes, it pales in comparison to the benefit of the drugs to your spiritual progress, if used properly.

The hard feelings that may appear afterwards sometimes: accept them and observe them, see to whom they appear, this is a powerful and integral part of the experience - the mind returned to town and is not happy with the progress under the drug last night :-)

Don't give up just because you feel bad by something, just because of your desire to feel good and your aversion of feeling bad.

lilian | Thu, 09/22/2011 - 05:43
Bercano's picture

well

Well...the notion of addictiveness can be as deceptive as...the saying, that wants to try Anything ...cossss it never downed, that my "spiritual addiction" rationalizes that swallowing, literally shit ... that too, could be the next thing to enlightenment;)
by all means....the Self is entertaining it-Self so, knock your-self out...and Hey, why just piss/fool/Play around with MDMA TAKE EVERYTHINGGGG ....1 most certainly is gone do the trick ...HUGE SMILESSSS

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 16:14
avi's picture

Firmly being in the now and the consequent fruits

A great gift just use it in moderation.

According to my experience, what MDMA mainly does is establishing you firmly and truly in the now, and the emphasis is firmly and truly - you then get the true promised fruits of really being in the now.

You realize then that all your previous futile trials to be in the now were mind's trials and thus were only partials, you realize that there should be some grace from outside to enable you to truly and fully be in the now.

Then you get the fruits of truly being in the now, the qualities, the "side effects" which the first and foremost is Absolute love. You also feel bliss and have complete knowledge about anything that is taking place right now in whatever location as long as it is happening now.

avi | Sat, 02/28/2009 - 23:01
Tania's picture

My main conclusion

With MDMA I always feel a great pleasure when rolling but a difficult down afterwards.

Though I think everyone should try it at least once to have a taste of liberation, my main conclusion from the up-down was to transcend the high as well as the down, that that pleasure felt though is divine is still a transient feeling on top of non-attachment stillness.

Tania | Mon, 03/09/2009 - 10:47
mika's picture

All you wanted to know about MDMA

A very good resource:

http://www.mdma.nu/index.html

Read there before trying for the first time.

mika | Thu, 07/02/2009 - 19:18
banana's picture

New Age Seekers: MDMA Use as an adjunct to Spiritual Pursuit

I have just attached to the post a PDF with the fascinating detailed research of Lynne Watson and Jerome Beck of the Institute of Scientific Analysis in San Francisco, titled "New Age Seekers: MDMA Use as an adjunct to Spiritual Pursuit".

The research was published in 1991 in the Journal for Psychoactive Drugs, Jul-Sep issue.

Skip the long academic introductions and jump to the documented spiritual experiences that were reported.

The following is the abstract of the article:

The use of MDMA as an adjunct to spiritual pursuit among New Ager seekers is examined. These study respondents indicated that social worlds greatly influenced which qualities of the MDMA experience were most pursued and valued. In contrast to recreationally oriented respondents, who saw minimal long-term benefits accruing from MDMA use, New Agers typically believed that carefully planned experiences possessed significant potential for lasting spiritual and/or therapeutic value. While many New Agers eschew the use of alcohol and other drugs, these respondents were generally impressed with MDMA. Nevertheless, they differed in their motivations for use and their perceptions of its influence in their lives: some employed MDMA as a sacramental adjunct for following specific spiritual paths; others viewed it as aiding their spiritual growth in more general ways. Because the approaches to and motivations for using MDMA differ so markedly for New Agers and recreationally oriented users, the importance of social worlds and context in studying drug-using behavior is underscored.

banana | Sat, 08/01/2009 - 00:43
RandomStu's picture

Clear, questioning mind

Whatever experiences, perceptions, or feelings arise, never lose the clarity of questioning: What is this? What am I? If you keep the great question "What am I?", that will provide a clear direction for the experience, whether it's taking MDMA or anything else.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/booboo.htm

RandomStu | Mon, 10/05/2009 - 02:09
Kirpal0's picture

Sounds like your trying to

Sounds like your trying to use spirituality as an excuse to get high. I'm a bit shocked by some of the responses you've gotten to support this idea of spiritual attainment via drug use.

I've experimented with various types of drugs, MDMA, ACID and at the end of the day all it did was regress my spiritual evolution.

good luck, stay safe.

Kirpal0 | Mon, 11/02/2009 - 14:24
RandomStu's picture

re: Spiritual Evolution

> I've experimented with various types of drugs, MDMA,
> ACID and at the end of the day all it did was regress
> my spiritual evolution.

People get very attached to dogmas, we cling to ideas and opinions, and this attachment/clinging makes suffering. For some people at some times, taking acid etc leads to fresh perspectives, helping them perceive the old beliefs they've been clutching, and let go of them.

The method used, whether it's drugs are anything else, isn't as important as what it leads to: does the method help you put down whatever beliefs you've been holding?

In your case, it's clear that taking MDMA and Acid did NOT help you put down beliefs like "spiritual evolution." That's OK, as long as you find your own way to release such dogmatic thinking. And surely you shouldn't "step on the toes" of those who use methods different from your own.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/booboo.htm

RandomStu | Mon, 11/02/2009 - 16:39
enlight's picture

Great spiritual MDMA account

I would recommend the following excellent blog post about a spiritual and psychological experience with MDMA. Worthwhile reading.

http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/greetings-fellow-earthlings

enlight | Sun, 12/13/2009 - 11:27
mariposa's picture

The obstacle of the body

The very fact that one pill that affects the body is essential for us to feel bliss and true love suggests that our problem must be concerned somehow with the body.

Body and mind, of course, which is a derivative of the body.

And without this pill we couldn't have experienced this to know it beyond theory, to know that there is such bliss and that there is such true love, that they are not a myth.

This is the great roll of MDMA on the spiritual path, to give us an appetizer, a promo, a preview, a movie trailer. Otherwise our trust and belief would have been silly.

mariposa | Tue, 04/20/2010 - 13:46
dualsun's picture

The issue I see with drugs

The issue I see with drugs is, once you come down off them, there is that sense of dullness, like everything is a little more plain...if there is too much of that dullness going on all the time from constant seeking of heightened sensations, theres not going to be that fine tuning of natural sensitivity thats needed, in order to make some of those deep realizations. I have no doubt its possible for some "expansion" through the use of certain drugs, but longterm usage with spiritual expectations, I can only see as stirring up mud in the pond, when the water really needs to be as clear and still as possible in order to see deeply, clarity of seeing goes a long way in this thing.

From what I remember, I did a few drugs in high school and college, fun times :)

dualsun | Sat, 12/18/2010 - 09:39
Darkclown's picture

MDMA

Like other psychedelic drugs, MDMA can open a door for you, however you have to walk through that door yourself and the drug cannot help you with that. As Alan Watts once said, "Once you get the message HANG UP THE PHONE".

Darkclown | Mon, 12/27/2010 - 02:57