Scientific Ignorance - Giant particle collider set to start

Tania's picture



Average: 5 (1 vote)

I am willing to bet $100 (after the $100 bet Stephen Hawking put on this test) that this test yield no results other than disappointment and more skeptic theories... poor and lost souls (that's, by the way, probably what they say about us, lol :-).

From the press:

Giant particle collider set to start

GENEVA, Switzerland (AP) -- Scientists hope to fire the first beam of protons around a 27-kilometer (17-mile) tunnel on Wednesday in science's next great step to understand the makeup of the universe. The experiment will look at how the universe formed by analyzing particle collisions.

The Large Hadron Collider -- built since 2003 at a cost of $3.8 billion -- will provide scientists with much greater power than ever before to smash the components of atoms in a bid to see how they are made.

The startup has been eagerly awaited by 9,000 physicists around the world who will conduct experiments here, though some skeptics have criticized the experiment, saying they fear the collisions of protons could eventually imperil Earth.

The skeptics theorize that a byproduct of the collisions could be micro black holes, subatomic versions of collapsed stars whose gravity is so strong they can suck in planets and other stars.

"It's nonsense," said James Gillies, chief spokesman for CERN, the host European Organization for Nuclear Research.

CERN is backed by leading scientists like Britain's Stephen Hawking in dismissing the fears and declaring the experiments to be absolutely safe.

Gillies told the AP that the most dangerous thing that could happen would be if a beam at full power were to go out of control, and that would only damage the accelerator itself and burrow into the rock around the tunnel deep below the Swiss-French border.

And full power is probably a year away.

"On Wednesday we start small," Gillies said. "What we're putting in to start with is one single low intensity bunch at low energy and we thread that around. We get experience with low energy things and then we ramp up as we get to know the machine better."

He said a good result for Wednesday would be to have one beam going all the way around the tunnel in a counterclockwise direction. If that works, the scientists will then try to send a beam in the other direction.

"A really good result would be to have the other beam going around, too, because once you've got a beam around once in both directions you know that there is no show stopper," Gillies said. "It's going to work."

However, if there is some blockage in the machine, experts will have to go in and fix the problem, and that could take time.

The LHC, as the collider is known, will take scientists to within a split second of a laboratory recreation of the Big Bang, which they theorize was the massive explosion that created the universe.

The project organized by the 20 European member nations of CERN has attracted researchers of 80 nationalities. Some 1,200 are from the United States, an observer country which contributed US$531 million. Japan, another observer, also is a major contributor.

The collider is designed to push the proton beam close to the speed of light, whizzing 11,000 times a second around the tunnel.

Smaller colliders have been used for decades to study the makeup of the atom. Less than 100 years ago scientists thought protons and neutrons were the smallest components of an atom's nucleus, but since then experiments have shown they were made of still smaller quarks and gluons and that there were other forces and particles.

The CERN experiments could reveal more about "dark matter," antimatter and possibly hidden dimensions of space and time. It could also find evidence of the hypothetical particle -- the Higgs boson -- believed to give mass to all other particles, and thus to matter that makes up the universe.

Some scientists have been waiting for 20 years to use the LHC. But even their younger colleagues are excited that startup has finally arrived.

"I think it's a very important project," said Katie McAlpine, 23, a Michigan State University graduate who made a rap video about the project.

"It's mostly out of scientific curiosity, what is the universe made of? How does it work? What are the rules? That's very exciting and it's important to advance our knowledge," she told Associated Press Television News.

She said she was surprised by the success of the video, which has had more than a million views on YouTube and which has received approval from CERN for its scientific accuracy and its success with young people.



nathan's picture

indeed

You are reading this and are amazed about how they haven't got the slightest clue about the universe and existence. Amazed about how they insist on looking for a beginning for something that, by definition, is beginning-less. Giggle about how their whole approach, to start with, is ridiculous, according to their own logic. Wonder how they don't see it.

It is exactly the same type of basic error they commit when they theorize about big things (the universe) as when they theorize about the small things (the subatomic particles) as well as when they theorize about the important things (soul, spirit, psychology, the mind).

And the funniest thing (or maybe the saddest thing) in all this is their self assurance and arrogance when they speak in contempt about spirituality.

Maybe Advaita and the "reality dream" theories (which suggest that the universe had no beginning as it is an illusion within a dream, the same as the universe appearing in our night dreams has no beginning as it is an illusion) are incorrect. Maybe. But these "reality dream" theories provide a much more consistent and coherent explanation than any of those complicated patched scientific theories.

At such times I miss those great scientist who were also deeply spiritual like Albert Einstein.

nathan | Wed, 09/10/2008 - 15:34
Phroggy's picture

Paraphrasing our buddy Al.

'There are two ways to look at life; either nothing is a miracle, or everything is a miracle.'

Phroggy | Wed, 09/10/2008 - 15:49
Omkaradatta's picture

Advaita and theories...

"Maybe Advaita and the "reality dream" theories (which suggest that the universe had no beginning as it is an illusion within a dream, the same as the universe appearing in our night dreams has no beginning as it is an illusion) are incorrect. Maybe."

I don't know about 'reality dream' theories, but in terms of Advaita, it isn't a theory... everything else is ;-). If you look closely, you'll see it actually deals only in the concrete: Being, awareness, perception, the here and now. The 'theories' are just utterances by those who have realized the truth -- and since we're dealing in the concrete rather than beliefs, you have to become a 'scientist' yourself to verify them.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 09/10/2008 - 19:52
nancy pro's picture

advaita is awesome but a theory

The core idea of Advaita is the oneness, the non-duality of god and the self. These ideas and all the immediate and indirect conclusions derived from them, natural as they may sound to us, are still theories, a belief, at least until we get enlightened or whatever. God, non-objectified self, oneness are all subjective non-experiential beliefs.

It is important to always remember this in order to have proportions, in order to constantly make sure we are in the right direction with the right belief system, in order to have a sincere constructive dialog with others who believe in different doctrines, in order to not end up with the common faults of many institutional religious people, and above all in order to maintain humility, always.

nancy pro | Thu, 09/11/2008 - 00:26
Omkaradatta's picture

The ideas...

"These ideas and all the immediate and indirect conclusions derived from them, natural as they may sound to us, are still theories, a belief, at least until we get enlightened or whatever."

All ideas are theories. In the absence of ideas, what is there? Obviously not a theory, not a belief. This is Advaita, in a nutshell.

Oneness is just a word. Like you said, one has to 'get enlightened' - or said better, take the scientific approach. Just find out what is there in the absence of you, your ideas, beliefs and theories, including those about so-called enlightenment.

>>It is important to always remember this

In my view, it's important to stop having to always remember things ;-). What's required is not your humility (or your arrogance), but your absence... which is the truth's presence.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 09/11/2008 - 02:20
nancy pro's picture

and this is another theory

Don't underestimate humility. It's much more than you think it is.

This absence is also a theory :-)

nancy pro | Thu, 09/11/2008 - 02:27
Omkaradatta's picture

I don't...

I don't underestimate either humility or arrogance. Both these qualities have enormous powers for good/evil, no doubt. Rather, I simply state that Advaita is beyond all dualities, including humility/arrogance. It is a different realm altogether.

If the absence of 'you' is a theory, find out why... maybe it's because having beliefs automatically promotes doubts, including the belief there's a 'you' there. Doubt/belief is yet another duality that goes hand in hand.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 09/11/2008 - 02:42
Phroggy's picture

Humility: Fact or fiction?

Omkar: What's required is not your humility (or your arrogance), but your absence... which is the truth's presence.

Phrog: Succinct enough to make a good bumper sticker.(and cause a lot of fender benders)

Nancy: Don't underestimate humility. It's much more than you think it is.

Phrog: Omkar's comment above doesn't underestimate humility, it takes it to a whole new level.

Nancy: This absence is also a theory :-)

Phrog: Then more humility is needed until it becomes a fact. :-)

Phroggy | Thu, 09/11/2008 - 03:08
Omkaradatta's picture

Humility...

It's worth repeating that humility/arrogance are a duality. They are both egoic traits, the former being a 'humble ego' and the latter an 'arrogant ego'.

Arrogant people tend to be so humbly (e.g. unknowingly or ignorantly), and humble people tend to show off their humility, to be arrogant about it. The two really go hand in hand, are two sides of the same coin.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 09/11/2008 - 03:21
genep's picture

Visions of god and Colliders

"Scientists hope to fire the first beam of protons around a 27-kilometer (17-mile) tunnel..."

Science works together with religions to feed the Karma
that makes Maya appear real.
Like visions of god, Atomic Bombs and Huge Colliders can only feed the Karma that makes Maya appear real.

- gp

genep | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 21:24