Truth

madan_gautam's picture



Average: 4.2 (9 votes)
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It may be easy to make others understand your point of view, but it is difficult to to understand your own self. To speak about truth, religion, spiritualism, birth, death, disease, God, spirit, & nature is as wasteful an exercise as fathoming the sea by a doll of salt. In ancient times, thousands of pioneers in spiritualism & science have tried to reveal the true nature of truth & untruth, soul & supreme soul, being and consciousness, temporal, & ethereal world, body & mind, pleasure , pain & happiness, mortality & immortality, mysticism & reality. They even tried to make us understand. But have we understood at all ?
OM



doo's picture

So true.

So true. So futile is to try to understand that which is beyond the mind by using the mind - with words, concepts, logic, reasoning, deduction, analysis, intellect, cause and effect, if-then-else, structures, forms, patterns, knowledge.

It took me some years to realize this until I managed to cope with my fear of meditation, my anexiety of the very idea of sitting for half an hour with the mind still. What a gift is this ancient universal tool, the only tool I have ever encountered for real understanding, for wordless insightful understanding, sometimes with no sense at all. How petty and poor mind-based understandings look after you taste the real understanding, how frustrating is the helpless incapability to share these wordless understandings.

doo | Tue, 11/25/2008 - 14:07
erez's picture

David Godman

I think this realization of the futility of mind analysis vs. meditation is best conveyed by the great David Godman when was speaking about his experience:

The experiences I was having made me understand how invalid were the academic techniques of acquiring and evaluating knowledge. I could see that the whole of academia was based on some sort of reductionism: separating something big into its little component parts, and then deriving conclusions about how the "big something" really worked. It's a reasonable approach for comprehending mechanical things, such as a car engine, but I understood - and knew by direct experience - that it was a futile way of gaining an understanding of oneself and the world we appear to be in. When I went through my academic textbooks after having these experiences, there was such a massive resistance both to their contents and to the assumptions that lay behind them, I knew I could no longer even read them, much less study them in order to pass exams. It wasn't an intellectual judgement on their irrelevance, it was more of a visceral disgust that physically prevented me from reading more than a few lines. I dropped out in my final year at Oxford, went to Ireland with my Ramana books, and spent about six months reading Ramana's teachings and practicing his technique of self-inquiry.

From http://www.davidgodman.org/interviews/rs1.shtml

erez | Tue, 11/25/2008 - 16:05
Phroggy's picture

~

What that says is that it's not a process of scientific reductionism or relentless logic or any kind of mental bifurcation, but I disgree with the conclusion that it's futile to talk about it. Many, many times, the words of a teacher formed an intuitive focus of looking that resulted in absolute clarity about what he was pointing to. Listening is as much an art as speaking. Perhaps we're so used to repeating the mantra that the Truth can't be spoken that we've dismissed all speaking and listening? This would be a mistake.

Phroggy | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 01:39
madan_gautam's picture

dismissed all speaking and listening?

>>>dismissed all speaking and listening? This would be a mistake.
yes speaking and listening is fruitful, but only when speaker and listener are at the same platform of saying and understanding.Before that what is being said can not be understood in its true relevance & misunderstanding is created there in between saying and listening.
OM

madan_gautam | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 08:10
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, of course. To me, there has to be a deeper looking, beyond the mind. Sometimes it happens.

Phroggy | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 08:21
Omkaradatta's picture

Try it...

Try it in the bathtub sometimes, while squeegying up bubbles with your hands or something. We don't have to be using the mind to look beyond the mind (doh). I submit that formal meditation isn't necessary either, although it's OK, of course.

For readers in general: Try to 'see' 24/7, be completely and unbrokenly aware, if ready. Formal meditation is broken practice. Become one-pointed, always focused, even in the marketplace.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 09:03
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, that's the limitation I see with meditation. It's segmented so that we can plan on being aware for an hour between 9 and 10am, assuming that even happens. That alert awareness should always be happening. We walk around half asleep and it's a little scary once it's noticed.

Phroggy | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 09:16
Omkaradatta's picture

Here's what I've noticed...

Formal meditation always involves the desire for a quiet place, away from the hustle and bustle, etc. If so, why not purposely limit one's life a bit? We do so much that's unnecessary, most people (in USA at least) are living infinitudes more richly than they need. If we're serious about being satisfied with 'what is', the here and now, why do we continue this "far beyond" attitude while adding in formal practice? What seems to make sense here is to bring one's whole life to look like a practice. But -- folks in general are not serious or sincere.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 10:37
madan_gautam's picture

Try it...

>>>Try to 'see' 24/7, be completely and un-brokenly aware, if ready. Formal meditation is broken practice.
But to be honest,how this 24/7 situation will come?It will not come until & unless one starts its journey from formal meditation practices & when going on ,going on then this formal process slowly and steadily become 24/7 process.But before that he/she has to taste the benefits of formal meditation.One can not just jump in 24/7 process,but he/she has to enter in 24/7 process at last.This is called SAKSHI BHAVA(no object,no observer just BEING) in Veda & Upnishads,Geeta etc.
OM

madan_gautam | Wed, 11/26/2008 - 12:56
maheshkag's picture

Truth

Meditation is the best tool i have ever experienced in my life. it is the bst tool to understand yourself and the others. its a way of life.

maheshkag | Sat, 11/29/2008 - 14:53