A true seeker and hard calls he has to make

george's picture

Average: 4.8 (9 votes)

A true seeker is one
whose desire for truth
is greater
than his desire for pleasure.

Not because
one is supposed to abandon
pleasure for truth.

But because
of the simple fact that
truth spoils pleasure.

Pleasure can only live in a dream.
Truth awakens from it.

Pleasure necessitates uninterrupted identification.
Truth is a quarrel monger.

This is the hardest call
one has to make.

Which turns to be the easiest
when one finds out that
no desire is volitional.

silencio's picture


No pleasure no pain or more accurately no pleasure no suffering.

silencio | Wed, 06/03/2009 - 20:36
avi's picture

This is why many prefer to get stuck in theoretical understandin

Realization of truth, not just understanding, truly blows up the hallucination bubble called reality which is vital for experiencing pleasure.

The point is that most of us get stuck in the intellectual understanding, in reciting theoretical mantras and do not move on to experiential realization. Why? It is convenient to stay there as you do not need to give up pleasure. This is a self deception, this is why all the vocal neo advaitan get nowhere.

avi | Fri, 06/05/2009 - 14:08
madan_gautam's picture

You are 100% right

Yes avi's I do fully agree with you.
People after reading from other sources think that truth has been achieved already and do not try to see it.
Yes you have truth with you always, but you have to explore it.

madan_gautam | Fri, 06/05/2009 - 14:36
Phroggy's picture


"Realization of truth, not just understanding, truly blows up the hallucination bubble called reality which is vital for experiencing pleasure."

And so pleasure is no longer experienced? Or perhaps experience is no longer experienced? Where do these ideas come from? Neither pleasure nor pain are problems to be overcome, and realization will not somehow end the experience of pleasure and pain. The notion that pleasure and pain are problems is what causes them to be problems. THAT is the illusion that "blows up".

Phroggy | Sat, 06/06/2009 - 19:00
madan_gautam's picture


>>>>realization will not somehow end the experience of pleasure and pain.
Yes,it will not somehow end the experience of pleasure & pain ,but the state of witness comes there and this state if witness is much beyond the state of pleasure & pain.
When you become witness only then you are not responsible for any action & when you are not responsible for any action only then you are liberated & this is Realization.

madan_gautam | Sun, 06/07/2009 - 04:15
Omkaradatta's picture


"Or perhaps experience is no longer experienced?"

That is more-or-less the case.

Pleasure and pain are interpretations. They were never experienced 'before realization', either. An interpretation is experienced, filtered through the imaginary experiencer's likes (attachments) and dislikes (rejections).

Where there's no clinging or rejecting, where are pleasure and pain? They are both sensations occurring now, neither pleasing nor painful.


Omkaradatta | Sun, 06/07/2009 - 18:06
Phroggy's picture


No, suffering is a subjective interpretation, pain is not. Step on broken glass with your bare feet and there is the sensation of pain. Feel a cool breeze on the face when the body is overheated, and there is pleasure. If you do not experience this, go see a doctor.

People have strange ideas of transcendence. To transcend the illusion does not mean the illusion goes away. To transcend the mind/body does not mean the mind and body disappear. To transcend pain and pleasure does not mean pain and pleasure go away.

To transcend is to go beyond and still include. The experience remains, the mind and body continue to function and respond to sensation. What is left behind is the complication of mind taking those experiences and sensations and writing a story of craving, suffering, vulnerability and personal torment. That's all that disappears and all that needs to.

Phroggy | Sun, 06/07/2009 - 19:58
Omkaradatta's picture


"To transcend the illusion does not mean the illusion goes away."

This seems to be a recurring theme for you. Are you afraid of something going away?


Omkaradatta | Tue, 06/09/2009 - 18:25
Phroggy's picture


A) It is not a recurring theme.(At least not for me)
B) It's disingenuous to not address the comment and instead attack me.
C) Slam your silly head really hard agaist the wall and tell me if the illusion went away or not.

Phroggy | Tue, 06/09/2009 - 23:19
Omkaradatta's picture


Huh? Attack ya?

Hiyyyyyaaaaa! *thump*

OK, now you can call the police ;-).

Honest, there wasn't the slightest, remotest intent to 'attack' anyone here. I just noticed you tend to talk about this subject fairly often, and was wondering if there was some issue or something behind it. If not, just say so.

"C) Slam your silly head really hard agaist the wall and tell me if the illusion went away or not."

I don't see things as illusory. Or real. The mental overlay that defines, interprets (and thus limits) everything is the illusion. Real/illusory is a dualistic polarity that does not exist.


Omkaradatta | Tue, 06/09/2009 - 23:55
lilian's picture

Not again

Not again! There was some time here during the recent weeks that things turned to be constructive and relevant without personal noises which are of the interest of no one except the ones who are conducting it.

lilian | Thu, 06/11/2009 - 05:38
Phroggy's picture


"Constructive and relevant" is your delusion, not mine. For the love of God (literally) I would obliterate your 'constructive relevance', but you won't let me.

Phroggy | Sun, 06/14/2009 - 04:04
Omkaradatta's picture


As silly and advaita-speakish as it may sound, she isn't there to let you. As you said in another message, it's all the impersonal functioning of consciousness. The notion that you can obliterate something may be "your" delusion.

Imagine a handful of marbles being thrown into a bowl; this is what's happening. Can one marble act volitionally on another?


Omkaradatta | Sun, 06/14/2009 - 07:37
mystic_saurabh's picture

I don't get this!

Jai Shri Guru!

In the last paragraph it is mentioned that, "Which turns to be the easiest
when one finds out that
no desire is volitional."

Could you please explain this part??

"NO DESIRE IS VOLITIONAL"?????????? I mean, I am using my volition/will to have a particular desire and moreso to act towards achieving it, right?

I have a desire for having sex and I use my volition/will to fulfil that desire!! So then why does it say that "no desire is volitional"??

I have have a desire for worldly pleasures but I also have a strong desire to achieve salvation/moksha/seek the truth. I have found it immensely difficult to completely abandon all my worldly desires to seek the truth! It is as if I am suppressing something and psychologically torn from within for not being able to control myself..... grrr...lol

Please help!

God bless ya,

mystic_saurabh | Sat, 06/06/2009 - 08:05
sisi's picture

addiction is not volitional

It just seems to you that you are deciding what to desire. If you feel carefully you will see that desire happens there because we are addicted.

To demonstrate this, think of a junky who is addicted to heroin - is his desire to heroin is volitional?

sisi | Sat, 06/06/2009 - 08:12
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

On one level I agree, on another I disagree.

I am not saying you are incorrect because in my case I see your concept to be both true and false. Anyone seeking truth who are not in their last incarnation will find your assessment to be true but for anyone who is knowingly in their last incarnation doesn't find it so.

During the first 28 years of my life I thought letting go of pleasure was the hardest call to make but before my twenty-ninth year I was spiritually conceived and the only thing I wanted was to enter the state Jesus was said to have been in. I thought it should have happened almost over night not realiziing we didn't enter out state of conditioning over night so why should it be changed so rapidly. The reason was because the Bible say we'll be changed in a moment and the twinkling of an eye. Therefore, what I found to be the most difficult thing was having the patience to go through the process rather than what I was required to do requiring patience.

--Elijah "NatureBoy"--
Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @

Elijah_NatureBoy | Wed, 12/12/2012 - 23:56