Transcending the body and mind

Omkaradatta's picture



Average: 4 (1 vote)
body.gif

I'll start this by saying it's likely you've already transcended the body, despite the fact you may believe you are it at times, identify with it.

Lemme ask ya this -- can you *have* a body and *be* a body at the same time? If you were a body, wouldn't your needs be exactly that of the body -- food, water, clothing and shelter?

Yet, you seem to need a heck of a lot more than that in life, so... are you the body? Clearly not. Others, too, don't see you as a body, or they wouldn't even talk to you. Does one talk to a body?

It would appear you may be the mind, or believe yourself to be so. Yet, you can observe the mind in operation as well. What you can observe, you are beyond. Thus, all one has to do is extricate themselves from the mind, exist beyond it.

What is that which observes the mind? Simple awareness. And what are the needs of awareness? Nothing. None. Nil. The real 'you' needs absolutely nothing.

Assuming we've already agreed we're beyond the body, it must be taking care of itself, unawares to us. If we aren't it, it must be meeting its own needs, or its needs have been met all along. The body needs very, very little to live, comparatively. And awareness needs nothing.

The trouble is all with the mind, which is endlessly greedy for everything. If we realize ourselves truly as the observer, as awareness, there is nothing more left. Our troubles are over.



Phroggy's picture

~

The key is really, as you say, "What you can observe, you are beyond." It's one of those things that's stupidly obvious once seen. You can't be the thing you are observing because what is observing it? There is apparently something observing and something else being observed. The only reason we come to think that we can be something we observe is that we first make the assumption that we're a body and then conclude that since we're a body and we can see the body, we must be able to see ourselves. False conclusions derived from false assumptions.

In the same way, we can't be a mind, thoughts, feelings, the entire ego structure, because we can observe these things. The observer cannot be observed.

Phroggy | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 11:03
Omkaradatta's picture

Ultimately

Ultimately, as everything is in awareness, everything *is* awareness. So in that regard, we are the whole. There's nothing peculiar about "our" body as compared to other folks' bodies, and nothing peculiar about "inner" thoughts and sensations as compared to "outer" things and objects. The mind does the dividing, and outside of it all is one (or not-two, if ya prefer).

The import of this is incredible -- everything is familiar, everything is intimate, everything is 'ours'... everywhere is home. All we have to do is stop pretending that what's outside our skin is somehow different than what's inside it.

P.S. I would add that just because we're not the body doesn't mean we're disembodied. Lack of identification isn't rejection or negation. What we are is neither formed nor formless, neither named nor nameless, neither embodied nor bodiless. It is outside these mental polarities.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 12:25
Lee's picture

phroggy

"The observer cannot be observed."

not true.

when the observer observes itself- the common- (and like the word "God"- heavily burdened)- word is enlightenment.

observing the observer is what this shindig is about

Lee | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 16:58
lilian's picture

It's a bit difficult in the beginning

It's a bit difficult to grasp it in the beginning - but the observer cannot be observed. Under the agreed laws of logic or science it is possible, in spirituality it is impossible by definition, this is a major part of the difference between them.

This is a crucial issue in spiritual understanding. In order to realize this I suggest you to read a very good blog post written by dear angel76 exactly about this topic - It is the best piece I have read about this subject including books by gurus etc. You can find it at the following link: Is Indeed Whatever You Observe Cannot Be You?. Read there also the comments.

lilian | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 17:38
Lee's picture

Lilian

true- "It's a bit difficult to grasp it in the beginning -"

Lee | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 17:34
Omkaradatta's picture

Not sure...

Not sure why it's difficult... even a child knows that he can't see his face directly, he needs a mirror ;-).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 00:25
Phroggy's picture

Are you sure?

You don't really think that's the same thing, do ya?

Phroggy | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 01:20
Omkaradatta's picture

No

No, but similar concept.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 01:32
Lee's picture

not sure

"Not sure why it's difficult... even a child knows that he can't see his face directly, he needs a mirror ;-)."

not sure- okay. that doesn't mean it's not difficult. has the observer observered itself in "you"?

Lee | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 18:00
Lee's picture

ah

true- "It's a bit difficult to grasp it in the beginning -"

a play on words here- both true

Lee | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 17:55
Phroggy's picture

Lee

If you have found something to observe, you have missed it. You will never be able to identify what you are through observation, you can only know that you are.

Phroggy | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 19:58
Lee's picture

phroggy

"If you have found something to observe, you have missed it. You will never be able to identify what you are through observation, you can only know that you are."

phroggy's a little dry- too long on the lily pads- jump in the water- go deeper.

“I want to kiss you.”
“The price of kissing is your life.”
“Now my loving runs to my life shouting,
What a bargain, let’s buy it!”

Rumi

Lee | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 18:10
Phroggy's picture

Half-baked lilly pads

Here's a clue: Rumi is not observing anything. Hehe.

Phroggy | Sun, 12/21/2008 - 01:44
dora's picture

fallacies

"If you were a body, wouldn't your needs be exactly that of the body -- food, water, clothing and shelter?

Who said that "food, water, clothing and shelter" are the only needs of a body? maybe logic is a need of the neuron netwroks of a body? etc.

"Does one talk to a body?"

Why not? You can talk to anything, especially if you suspect that this anything may be able to listen to you.

Any way you try to cope with the subject using logic you will stay at the level of words and arrive at a paradox or a dead end....

dora | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 17:08
Lee's picture

nothing left?

"If we realize ourselves truly as the observer, as awareness, there is nothing more left."

there is Life- left. aliveness, peace, freedom from suffering, liberation, salvation, enlightenment, felt oneness with Being, transparency, realization of who "i am", the truth- setting you free

the ego does not like "there is nothing left". it need not worry- there is plenty left without it- depth and reality.

and troubles as well- but their meaning falls away.

most live in a dark room with one candle. when lit- Ah! when out- Boo-hoo. when the curtains are finally open- when the observer observes itself- there is still a candle- that is lit and then unlit. but in such a bright room, the value of this candle fades.

Lee | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 17:22
madan_gautam's picture

Nothing Left

I totally agree with you here.
The so called Lobby of blind one souls should have lesson from your post.
OM

madan_gautam | Fri, 12/19/2008 - 14:21
Phroggy's picture

"Lobby of blind one souls"??

Beyond the subtle personal digs, the entire quote from the OP was this:

"The trouble is all with the mind, which is endlessly greedy for everything. If we realize ourselves truly as the observer, as awareness, there is nothing more left. Our troubles are over."

For those who read everything with a personal bias (not mentioning any names of course) the quote means that, as Awareness, you are everything and so you are not greedy for anything. Outside of the Self there is nothing to get, and nothing to lose.

Phroggy | Sun, 12/21/2008 - 02:00
Lee's picture

hafiz

only

that Illumined
one

who keeps
seducing the formless into form

had the charm to win my
heart.

only a perfect one

who is always
laughing at the word
two

can make you know

of

love

Lee | Sun, 12/21/2008 - 18:19