there is no difference between dream and waking

santthosh kumaar's picture



Average: 4.5 (2 votes)

Waking is as real as dream. One has to analyze the three states, not the individual experince happens in the dream and waking. The individual experiences are part of the illusion. Since everyone judges the three states, on base of waking entity, they miss to grasp the non dual truth.

What is it, that witnesses the dream, without the physical body,when the Waking entity or experince, ceases to exist in the dream?

Searching the truth on the base of 'I', as self, is like emptying the ocean drop by drop. Therefore, it is necessary to know What is 'I'? before indulging in pursuit of truth.

The invisible witness of the dream has to be grasped mentally.It needs the sharpness to grasp it. This sharpness comes only through constant inquiry,reasoning and analysis on the true base.

The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel Waking experince. If one indulges on the base of theories and keep arguing on the base of false Waking identity, one will not be able to grasp the non dual witness, which is the true self.

The dream and waking both are an object to the self. The self is ever independent and apart from the experince of duality,which is present as dream or waking.

The self is within the experince of dream and waking, as its invisible substence, and it is apart from the waking or dream experince, as its invisible witness.It is apart because it is not an entity or identity within the Waking experince.

Since,most people accept their arrived intellectual theories, based on the physical false self, they are not receptive to accept anything other than their accepted truth.

Only those seekers, who tried all paths practices and tired of intellectual arguments and find it inadequate and useless to quench their spiritual thirst.And if they are sincerely and seriously searching for the ultimate truth, by dropping all there intellectual accumulated dross, will be able to grasp and realize the ultimate truth.

It is necessary for the seeker to try everything and make sure for himself that, they all are inadequate and useless, before indulging in pursuit of non dual truth.

Master of non dual truth, Nirakara said: The truth will not be reveled to those, who base themselves on birth,life and death, which they hold as reality and search the truth on the false physical identity, which is the part of the illusory experince.

All the theories and intellectual arguments will keep one in the clutches of duality, therfore one will not be able to cross the boundaries of duality, and able to go beyond.

It is necessary for the truth seekers to make sure, what is truth and what is not truth, to realize the non dual truth and reject the untruth, which is the duality or mind.

It is the same invisible witness which witness the dream, witnesses the Waking also. it takes years of mental practice to view and judge the Waking and dream on the standpoint of the invisible witness.

In reality there is neither the witness nor the witnessed exist. Everything is merged and prevail as non dual truth. The ice remains as ice, until it is melted. Likewise the duality remains as duality, until the ultimate truth is realized.



Phroggy's picture

Mental practice and vanishing dualities

"it takes years of mental practice to view and judge the Waking and dream on the standpoint of the invisible witness."

I don't see it as a matter of mental practice. Such practice is the activity of the dream character who's standpoint is being rejected in favor of the 'witness' standpoint. The witness does not engage in mental practice nor does it concern itself with some ideal of activity, it simply witnesses. If mental practice is what brings about the witness, then the witness is a mental 'object'. What is required is a shift of perspective that amounts to an egoic detachment from mental activity. This is an effortless letting go rather than a practice and it may occur instantly with the simple intention to do so. If it does not, no amount of practice will bring it about. In that event, it would be appropriate to examine these attachments and attempt to bring about some clarity of the nature of attachments. If there is a practice, perhaps it is in gaining this clarity.

"Likewise the duality remains as duality, until the ultimate truth is realized."

Once Truth is realized, duality is seen for what it is, but it remains. Light/dark, happy/sad, the beat goes on in the absence of a mind identified experiencer.

Phroggy | Wed, 09/24/2008 - 06:53
Omkaradatta's picture

Sorta...

"Once Truth is realized, duality is seen for what it is, but it remains. Light/dark, happy/sad, the beat goes on in the absence of a mind identified experiencer."

It sorta does, and it sorta doesn't. Experiencing remains, but not a sense of dualistic experience. Something goes on, but it can't be described as a 'beat', 'business as usual', 'continuity based on memory'. The mind-identified experiencer *is* the 'beat'.

There's no way to describe this properly, it can only be 'directly experienced'. It seems silly to make any assumptions about what may remain and what not...

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 09/24/2008 - 13:13
Phroggy's picture

My discussion theory

My theory is, that doesn't do much to encourage discussion; calling folks silly for saying things that you 'sorta' agree with.

Phroggy | Wed, 09/24/2008 - 17:19
dora's picture

On the Muppet Show Tonight

You two are sometimes like the two spectator men in the Muppet Show, forgot their names, it's cute! :-)

Speaking about the Muppet Show:

What is the most Advaitan aspect embodied in that old show?

Who was the most spiritual character and why?

dora | Wed, 09/24/2008 - 19:23
Phroggy's picture

The rainbow connection theory

Well, Kermit the Phrog, of course! It's not easy to be green, ya know. :)~

Phroggy | Wed, 09/24/2008 - 20:12
Omkaradatta's picture

I didn't call you silly, silly ;-).

I said it seems silly to make assumptions about something, I didn't say you are silly. You strike me as quite sincere/serious most of the time, at least when posting without the frog icon ;-).

P.S. Duality is in the mind; it isn't evident here in reality. If I am happy, then later sad, I can only determine this through memory, through comparing two 'states' (probably because I wish to return to the former). If no comparison happens, no duality is there.

If it's light, then later dark, how do I determine 'dark'? Dark compared to what? There is no fixed 'dark' or 'light' in existence. Duality was imaginary from the start, and remains imaginary upon 'awakening'. Duality/nonduality is itself a false dichotomy!

Nothing was ever divided, we only imagine so. The 'snake' is a rope now, and remains a rope upon waking from the dream. But if you see a snake, then by all means try and kill it... it's the only sane approach. Or at least, get up real close and examine it carefully...

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 00:09
Phroggy's picture

A theory about silliness.

Don't be silly ;)duality is perfectly evident "here in reality" because reality transcends duality, and therefore includes it. Imaginary or not, light and dark remain as perceptions, and that's all I was trying to say. Whether something is seen as illusion, 'false dichotomy' or whatever, it's still perceived.You're using dualistic words and concepts to explain how you don't notice anything dualistic.

Phroggy | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 00:15
Omkaradatta's picture

"Don't be silly ;)duality is

"Don't be silly ;)duality is perfectly evident "here in reality" because reality transcends duality, and therefore includes it. Imaginary or not, light and dark remain as perceptions, and that's all I was trying to say."

In what way are perceptions dualistic? They only are so if there's a perceived perceiver who is separate from them.

"Whether something is seen as illusion, 'false dichotomy' or whatever, it's still perceived."

To my knowledge, nobody has ever claimed that "perceiving" disappears upon self-realization, and I don't know why it needs to be stated that it doesn't. But if a rope is mistakenly perceived to be a snake, you can bet that the 'perception' of snake-ness goes away upon realizing the truth. Your 'relationship' to the rope will be dramatically different afterward, will it not?

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 00:28
Phroggy's picture

"In what way are perceptions

"In what way are perceptions dualistic? They only are so if there's a perceived perceiver who is separate from them."

So, because you perceive no perceiver separate from them, you are not able to perceive light and dark? That would seem to be a disability that calls for correction.

Phroggy | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 00:40
Omkaradatta's picture

This isn't a discussion...

"So, because you perceive no perceiver separate from them, you are not able to perceive light and dark? That would seem to be a disability that calls for correction."

In my view, you're taking an egoic stance above with such comments, and I don't care to continue this conversation. If you want to discuss without the obnoxious comments, I'm willing.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 00:44
Phroggy's picture

No, serial!

I'm serious. Some opthamalogical intercession may be called for. How many fingers am I holding up?..........:)~

Phroggy | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 04:25
Omkaradatta's picture

We are all One

We are all... "this many" (raising middle finger) ;-D.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/26/2008 - 15:34
madan_gautam's picture

Difference ...................

Yes there is difference between two, i.e. dream and Awaking.
The One who is already established in His/Her True Inner- Self can let you know.
But, I am sorry to say that you have to approach "HIM" personally.
____________

OM

madan_gautam | Mon, 12/15/2008 - 18:25
avi's picture

the difference is in the point of perspective

The dream sleep state and the waking state are the same according to advaita. The difference between them is the point of perspective of the subject. The realized according to advaita has awaken from the waking state dream the same way you awake every day from your night dream sleep and thus he is aware that the waking state was just a dream...

avi | Wed, 12/31/2008 - 14:18