spirituality is for, to find and know the truth.

santthosh kumaar's picture

Average: 5 (1 vote)

Spirituality is to discover and realize the fact that, the self is the spirit. Spirituality is nothing to do with religion,scriptures and concept of god. Because the religion and concept of god and scriptures are based on the false physical entity. When the self is not the physical body, how can the self belong to any religion and concept of god or the particular scriptures.

Religion and concept of god is necessary for the mass to lead a moral oriented worldly life. But they are not the means to realize the truth.in truth the mind or Waking experince is mere mirage.

enlight's picture

i disagree

This is a clever trick of the skeptic mind who was chased out through the door and returns through the window.

He returns now under a radically spiritual hat (to better disguise its non-spirituality). In this way, again he is able to do the same: to take out all the spirit out and leave only mind-generated ideas.

You, in advance and in a sweeping way, eliminate god, scriptures, religion from spirituality. On what basis? Have you checked each and every one of them? What you do is exactly what the institutional religions do just in the opposite direction - they bring in all these ingredients also without inspecting them, they call it belief.

Preaching vigorously no matter what, which is based on a theory, including the preaching against religion, is yet another type of a religion and is contra-productive to spirituality. Always ask yourself: on what do I base this idea I am so strongly having?

And always treat with caution every doctrine, theory, thesis, assumption. Never take it as the absolute truth. It might be the truth but you do not know whether it is so or maybe a false notion. Always remember that it is just an opinion as you did not experience it. If you do not follow this it means that you are not sincere with yourself, there is some other motive in you being attached to the underlying doctrine and moreover by preaching it to others with pseudo self confidence, you don't realy mind their goodness, it is just your ego that wants to be an authority, a teacher.

enlight | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 16:32
Phroggy's picture

How do you know this?

Hi enlight

Please don't take offense but how do you know all this about Santthosh? At the very least, he has a better grasp of the teachings than most here, so why not let it be what it is? You call him a non-spiritual skeptic who is trying to trick us, you declare what he says as his opinion preached from ego with pseudo self confidence and then condescendingly suggest he may not follow your judgments, assumptions and insults. Look at the assumtions you've made, which you cannot know are true, and the insensitivity you have shown to Santthosh if in fact they are not.

Phroggy | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 18:52
Omkaradatta's picture

I'm starting to notice...

I'm starting to notice some robotic-like statements repeated regularly by people around here...

"This is a clever trick of the skeptic mind..."

"XXX is nice, but only a theory..."

"XXX is merely analysis, shut up and try it..."

Gurusfeet.com definitely has its Yahoo-groups-like "vasanas" repeated habitually by people, who don't seem to examine things more closely but to react a certain way each time. I guess this is human nature: to listen to one's own conditioning, not the actual words. Nobody seems to want insight, to look at things more closely. I see zombies, too.


Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 19:16
Phroggy's picture

Eggzakly. It's these

Eggzakly. It's these zombie-like reactions that we need to look closely at and question. We talk with confidence about how somebody can't know, we theorize that other's words are just theories, we dismiss insights so that we can get back to our practice designed to give us insights. Yes, it's human nature; reacting viscerally and half asleep.

Phroggy | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 20:09
Omkaradatta's picture

Eggzactly back atcha ;-)...

"We talk with confidence about how somebody can't know, we theorize that other's words are just theories, we dismiss insights so that we can get back to our practice designed to give us insights."

This is one of the main ways ego works, through projection. It is the 'great confessor', in that it's telling/accusing others about what it's doing itself (and sometimes taking credit for what the other person is really doing).

It's almost as though it were saying "help me, I'm doing this and don't know how to stop".


Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 23:10
Annie's picture

It is not them as you are

It is not them as you are the only thing that exists, they are just triggers, a decoration. Dismissing them is a trick not to cope with something, an easy excuse. Find this something.

Instead of them, check the me - why it resists this so much, why the strong attachment to analyzing. Maybe this attachment is justified, maybe not.

Maybe these are not vasanas but things that are repeated because they are so clear and obvious to others that you should consider dropping the resistance and start checking them, just checking?

Resistance to drop analysis and words and to try something in practice is usually stemming from attachment to mind content, from a fear of meditating. Are you meditating? Have you ever meditated for long periods?

Annie | Sat, 09/20/2008 - 06:47
Omkaradatta's picture

I don't need fixing...

I don't need to be 'fixed'... I'm not broken. Amazing, isn't it? :-). Nothing is wrong with me at all, everything is perfectly OK as-is.

"...you should consider dropping the resistance and start checking them, just checking?"

You don't know that there's any resistance with me, but you know whether there is with you. Why don't you consider it yourself, so you're beyond the need of checking/not checking anything?


Omkaradatta | Sat, 09/20/2008 - 18:16
sonti's picture

so mischievous is the mind

so mischievous is the mind

sonti | Sun, 09/21/2008 - 07:29
Omkaradatta's picture

Indeed it is...

It's always saying "you, you, YOU are mistaken" but it never says "I am mistaken, I need to look at an issue". Always the other guy is 'doing it wrong', eh? ;-). That way, nobody has to look at anything.

P.S. a good sign of the above is on sites like this, where nobody really knows anyone else, has no clue what's really happening with them, etc. That's where all the judging and lecturing is happening, and is nearly always a diversion from taking a close look at oneself.

Probably you're thinking "he's doing it now himself, why can't he see that", aren't you? ;-). *Anything* to avoid examining oneself (self-enquiry). Ego survives through obsession with 'other', which is why 'otherness' vanishes on Self-realization.


Omkaradatta | Sun, 09/21/2008 - 09:24
lilian's picture

Back to the basics

Yes, yahoo has these "test for yourself, do not get attached to theories and thinking" vasanas, and also gurusfeet, and also the gurus and the spiritual teachers and also the ashrams, and all the retreats, and all the zen masters...

I think people are repeating this basic thing because all have been there in the beginning of their paths. It is such a common trick of the mind to indulge in his mind-made words, thinking and theories in order to escape the actual (name it meditation, practice, real-time test, thoughtless etc.).

Maybe all are wrong but you are doing to yourself a bad service by dismissing what so many people try to tell you as zombie, groupthink and robotic-like.

Finally a quote, my guru, Nisargadatta Maharaj, said it beautifully: "It is not the theory that matters, but the way it is being tested. It is the testing of the theory that makes it fruitful."

lilian | Sat, 09/20/2008 - 07:49
Omkaradatta's picture

It isn't that...

... but the endless repetition of this 'test for yourself' thing, as a way to deny open conversation. If folks don't like conversation, don't like to discuss things, then keep meditating and stay off Gurusfeet.com in the first place :-). This is a place for conversation, not meditating.

"When eating, eat. When sleeping, sleep". When talking, talk. When meditating, meditate.

> Maybe all are wrong but you are doing to
> yourself a bad service by dismissing what
> so many people try to tell you as zombie,
> groupthink and robotic-like.

I don't listen to others, but my Self. I've really always been this way. If every person on the planet came and told me something, but I saw it as obviously different, I would have to tell them that they were all mistaken. I find this is the key to happiness, because everybody else seems to be miserable and I don't.

Omkaradatta | Sat, 09/20/2008 - 18:25
nancy pro's picture

It is the propositions, my

It is the propositions, my dear.

I think most people here try to tell you: use the conversations, use the words BUT do not let them use you, do not get attached to them, do not get attached to theories, do not forget that they are theories and start regard them as facts. A car is a wonderful tool but keep it to what it is good for, if you insist on bringing it to inside your apartment, then...

Conversations are a great tool to share insights but they are only means and are limited. People use these conversations as a means to some state, some practice, some experience, to go on. And for that purpose, this website provides, I think, unparalleled insights.

As someone here quoted the Maharaj, the purpose of words is just to give you a signpost to go on and test it. Without testing, the theory is pointless. Staying at the theory stage is one of the greatest and most successful tricks of the mind (it says: "yes, yes, go on with the intellectual investigations, i have no problem, by all means, understand, yes, understand, you see? i give you freedom, but just don't get into the implementation...".

I think that when so many people tell us something (including Maharaj in the quote above), even if it may prove erroneous, we owe to ourselves to check it out throughly and not to dismiss it upfront. It is an important part of our sadhana. You don't need to inform others about you checking or attitude when you are checking (otherwise, ego might use the opportunity and get back to fighting etc. and anyway the "others" are truly irrelevant), just to consider for a moment outside of our conditioning automatic responses. I am sure many are doing it with your inputs. I do. Maybe, there is, just a maybe, that there is something there and thus happens to be a wonderful opportunity. Who will want to lose such an opportunity?! :-)

nancy pro | Sun, 09/21/2008 - 07:57
Omkaradatta's picture

Do people need a history, or something?

I was 'into' spirituality for five years ('98-'03), out of it completely for five years ('03-'08), and 'woke up' in January of this year. Neither words nor meditations are needed here anymore. I'm here only to talk, have fun, maybe nudge a few folks in the direction of the truth.

Some people seek words, some seek meditating. Some seek money, some seek fame. And some seek nothing at all. I'm not interested in any opportunities, because I'm not looking to gain or lose anything. I have my Self, what else is there?

P.S. I've never disagreed with anything you said above. Probably you haven't noticed that, nor has anyone else, in their rush to judge/lecture.


Omkaradatta | Sun, 09/21/2008 - 08:41
Phroggy's picture

Everyone wants to lose the opportunity

"I think that when so many people tell us something (including Maharaj in the quote above), even if it may prove erroneous, we owe to ourselves to check it out throughly and not to dismiss it upfront."

And that's all I've been trying to say. When somebody says, 'That's just theory, do the practice, do you meditate?', they're dismissing out of hand. No discussion, no looking, no interest.

Phroggy | Sun, 09/21/2008 - 09:27
Omkaradatta's picture

Very true...

The fact that folks are labeling open discussion between human beings "theory", "analysis", etc. (things that happen in science/mathematics) shows a clear condemnation + rejection of the mind.

This will only strengthen the mind, but maybe people have to find this out for themselves. Neither condemnation nor indulgence, but clear seeing and observation is the key.

Neither this crowd nor the Yahoo! groups crowd seem willing. The 'middle path' is shunned by nearly all. Everybody wants the easy road, the broad road. Either talk endlessly about nonsense, or reject the mind and meditate (after which the mind comes rushing back in, of course).

But people will learn that 'brute force' techniques don't work, that the spiritual path requires their full involvement in every way. It took that to fall into delusion, and it takes that to get out of it, too.

Nisargadatta: "We miss the real by lack of attention and create the unreal by excess of imagination. You have to give your heart and mind to these things and brood over them repeatedly. It is like cooking food. You must keep it on the fire for some time before it is ready." -- From "I Am That".


Omkaradatta | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 04:50
Phroggy's picture

Absolutely agree

However, I believe we've been dismissed here.

Phroggy | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 05:37
Omkaradatta's picture

Ya think? ;-)...

Just go into re-mission ;-).

Mike said in his Yahoo profile: "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member". I say I'll only join clubs that wouldn't ;-).


Omkaradatta | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 06:03