The soul exists prior to the mind

santthosh kumaar's picture

Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

The mind is created out of the soul/spirit. Mind is mere mirage. Man and the world exist within the mind. Mind appears as waking and dream and disappears as deep sleep.
Everyone is basing themselves on the waking entity/ego and trying to discover the truth of their true existence, which leads them to intellectual speculation or imagination. When “Self” is not the physical then it is erroneous to base the judgment on the physicality.
The reality exists prior to the appearance of the mind and prevails after disappearance of the mind.
Mind does not exist within the body but the body and world exits within the mind. If one limits the mind to the physical entity, then it becomes ego, and the sense of individuality and separateness is created.
People think the mind is within their body and try to judge the non-dual truth on the base of the body but remain in the world of imagination and speculation.

The individuality makes one feel he is born in this world and world existed prior to him. Thus, he thinks he an individual separate from the world and believes the birth, life and death as reality.
Until one thinks the birth, life and death as reality the self-knowledge is impossibility. Thus it is necessary to realize the fact that, birth, life and death are reality on the base of false self within the false experience.

Thus arguing whether there is soul or no soul, on the base of the false self is erroneous, because the soul exists prior to the mind, and also it is formless substance and witness of the mind.

lysha's picture

Many people are mislead to

Many people are mislead to believe that once this body dissemilates that it renders the end of your divine purpose , however , I exhort that there is more o life than meets the eye!

lysha | Fri, 02/12/2010 - 09:11
solomon's picture

Inspect the concept of soul with the same tool

If you inspect the concept of "soul" with the same tools that derived your conclusion that the mind is a mirage you will arrive at the same exact conclusion about the soul being a mirage too.

You will see that you were using mind's logic to dismiss the mind and that this logic can be used to dismiss anything. In other words, you conclude that the mind does not exist using the logic of the mind itself which means that you tacitly assume that it exists and valid.

solomon | Fri, 02/12/2010 - 09:37
santthosh kumaar's picture

Re: Inspect the concept of soul with the same tool

If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all backgrounds, of all cultures, of all patterns of thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being man or woman, or even human should be discarded.
— Nisargadatta Maharaj

Logic is misunderstood. People cannot distinguish between reasoning and intellect. Reason applied only to waking experience or duality is called logic, intellect. Seeker of truth learns not only such reason but also reasoning based on waking sleep and dream. To say rise above logic, is generally confused with saying “Rise above Reason.” It is wrong to give up reason. Life does not consist only of waking state. One must take all three states and analyze.

Reason is the highest mental faculty. It is next to the true self/Atman. Reason is needed. Only Through Reason seeker reaches true self that is Ataman." Even in material affairs it is the man with the sharpest intelligence who wins.

Logic is not the same as my Reason. There should be a distinction between them. Logic cannot know the Absolute. It is of intellect, not reason. Reason can know the Absolute. Logic applies only to the objective (seen) world. Intellectuals have not analyzed the mind itself yet. Hence they cannot understand the truth behind the objective awareness. If the invisible Witness Self/soul/spirit could see itself.
Reasoning in pursuit of truth is thinking applied to all three states to prove something. It is in this sense that used the word non-dual, which religious scholars/intellectuals do not grasp because they take the birth entity as self and the world as reality. When they take the birth entity as self and speculate with their logical conclusion and try to snub others. There is no use of arguing with the people who bases them selves on the ego/false self. Thus there is a need to know the fact that, true self is not “form” but “formless”. Thus, everything has to be viewed and judge on the base of the formless, which is the formless substance and witness of the three states.

Reasoning must not be confused with intellectual argument. The latter is used by lawyers for logical building up of evidence of seen objects only but the former is used in pursuit of truth to refer to evidence of all three states. Reason sees the appearance and disappearance of objects including ego; whereas logical intellect is limited to them alone.

One cannot witness the mind of another. All he can do is to witness his bodily actions and guess at the mind behind them. If mind is there the body and the world are there. Absent of mind is absent of body and world. What prevails with or without the mind[waking/dream/'I'] is the formless witness.

santthosh kumaar | Fri, 02/12/2010 - 22:30
nancy pro's picture

Intellectual speculation

You denounce intellectual speculation and right after makes intellectual speculations freely: "reality exists prior to the appearance of the mind and prevails after disappearance of the mind" or "Mind does not exist within the body but the body and world exits within the mind"

These are mere speculations and hypothesis. Why not abandon them and just be while watching this great desire for certain knowledge which is something outside the reach of the human being who is isolated by the senses and mind?

nancy pro | Fri, 02/12/2010 - 18:48
santthosh kumaar's picture

RE: Intellectual speculation

The path of religion, path of yoga and the path of wisdom were intended for different classes of people. The wisdom is for the advanced seekers of truth. It deals with the nature of the ultimate Truth and Reality. It is meant for superior aspirants who have inner urge to know the truth and it is not for those who are immersed in earthly desires.

The scientists now concluded that you are not the brain [body]. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."
The Biology of Consciousness
by Alva Noë. Hill and Wang, 2009

Alva Noe, a University of California, Berkeley, philosopher and cognitive scientist, argues that after decades of concerted effort on the part of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers "only one proposition about how the brain makes us conscious ... has emerged unchallenged: we don't have a clue." The reason we have been unable to explain the neural basis of consciousness, he says, is that it does not take place in the brain. Consciousness is not something that happens inside us but something we achieve it is more like dancing than it is like the digestive process. To understand consciousness the fact that we think and feel and that a world shows up for us we need to look at a larger system of which the brain is only one element. Consciousness requires the joint operation of brain, body and world. "You are not your brain. The brain, rather, is part of what you are."

Thus, scientific invention is going in the right direction in its invention and one day it will declare that everything is consciousness, which Shankar declared 1200 years back –everything is Ataman- because Ataman is in the form of consciousness. Thus we have to know the fact that Buddha, Goudpad and Sri,Sankara are not only reformers but also the greatest scientists. Since there original thesis have been lost in the labyrinths of philosophy and mutilated by pundits and priest craft, it becomes very difficult understand and assimilate the wisdom expounded by the great masters. In addition, the conservativeness of the scholars will not allow any research other then playing with the words, which suits the mass mindsets, because of their egocentric out look. All the add-ons have to be deleted, to understand and assimilate the real fragrance of the wisdom expounded by the great masters. It is hurricane task. Thus, it is no use going through all the scriptures, when there is direct path to non-dual truth. The same time and effort can be used to reach the non-dual destination, which lesser time and effort.

Thus, self-knowledge is meant only for those who have intense urge, and courage to accept the truth with humility and reject the untruth. Since people start comparing with their scriptural knowledge, it becomes impossible to assimilate and realize the non-dual truth. Therefore, there is no need to convince anyone other then our own-self to get the firm conviction. I am not trying to prove my views, but it is for you to prove yourself to know what is truth? and what is untruth to assimilate the self -knowledge.

santthosh kumaar | Fri, 02/12/2010 - 22:42