Sadhanas till we awaken

vsrinivasan1879's picture

Average: 3.7 (3 votes)

It was discussed in earlier topics about sadhana. We in our pure sense are purusha. we do not undergo any change, nor ignorance happens to us. All our sadhanas are out of ignorance. It is like changing the shadow. Our shadow appears in different form depending on the surface on which it falls. It is only with clear understanding we will learn and realise this. Ignorance can be removed only with clear understanding of the Knowldge. All the sadhanas are only to make the surface plain, so that we can see our own reflected light/ near perfect image in relative sense. Till you achieve this kind of clear understanding or Just BE, let the sadhana by the ignorants go on, even if it is in ignorance.

RandomStu's picture

Clear Understanding

> Ignorance can be removed only with clear
> understanding of the Knowldge.

The word "clear" is important. If we say the sky is clear, it means there are no clouds or fog etc in it. If we say the room has been cleared, it means that there's no one or nothing in it. So "clear" means nothing at all.

We can hold one idea that's bad understanding. Maybe we then replace with a different idea, that's better understanding. But "clear" understanding means not holding any idea at all, putting down all ideas, and attending to the just-now situation.


RandomStu | Tue, 09/29/2009 - 17:56
Phroggy's picture

Yes, that's well said.

Yes, that's well said. Concepts can be expanded in context to the point where mind can no longer find a place to stand, or any particular personal use for it. Mind is often willing to move in this way, if perhaps reluctantly. But it must originate in a seeing beyond mind or one idea is no better than another.

Phroggy | Wed, 09/30/2009 - 07:02
happy's picture

Extreme abstraction

Extreme abstraction gives a good feeling to the mind but yields nothing significant. It takes time to realize this. At some point in your path you find out that it is actually an endless analytical game.

leave all these games with attractive theoretical concepts of formlessness, maya and so on and move to your heart. There you will benefit from a different quality of endlessness.

happy | Wed, 09/30/2009 - 17:52
RandomStu's picture


> leave all these games with attractive theoretical
> concepts of formlessness, maya and so on

OK, that's good teaching, to leave aside all theoretical concepts like "formlessness" or "maya" or etc etc etc.

> and move to your heart.

But "heart" is yet another theoretical concept! What does "move to your heart" mean? Since you give no further explanation of these words you use, they could be read by some as a suggestion to give up attachment to ideas, and replace it with attachment to good feelings. That would be like taking a medicine that cures one illness, and replaces it with a different illness.

It's true, e.g., that blissful devotional feelings can help one leave aside theoretical understandings. But attachment to those nice feelings is still an attachment.


RandomStu | Wed, 09/30/2009 - 18:08
Phroggy's picture

I have a nasty habit of

I have a nasty habit of questioning everything, and so i can seem very contrary to many, but it has served me well in getting past a lot of nonsense instead of getting stuck in it.

Extreme abstraction feels crapy to the mind. Mind wants solid, rational answers it can get a grip on. Folks may grasp at abstraction in hopes of understanding, and many will parrot these concepts, but because you've never seen the truth of any of them, you fail to realize that many people actually do. It's clear to me that the OP understands what he's talking about, and it irritates you because you don't.

This is one of the many dangers of 'moving to the heart' as Stuart implies below, though he's not nearly as blunt as I am. It never becomes conscious, and moves in shallow, sentimental, self serving ways. There is indeed a path of the heart just as there is a path of the mind, but I've yet to see anyone here who is actually on it. This requires such a deep devotion to God that even one's personal desires are set aside. Moving to the heart sounds very spiritual, which is one reason people talk about it, but it really has nothing to do with your feelings or your desires or your needs or what you may call love. It has nothing to do with you at all.

If God has brought you to your knees and ripped a hole in your heart and driven you to the edge of madness in longing, then I will listen to what you have to say about moving to the heart. Feeling games are no better than mind games.

Phroggy | Thu, 10/01/2009 - 08:20
dora's picture

Content is marginal comparing to relationship

Indeed nasty, especially for yourself. And it is not you who has this nasty habit but it is your mind who plays this nasty trick on you, classical hobby of mind is extreme questioning. Saying no no no is not questioning. Balanced questioning is indeed important.

I think you miss a great deal of the essence of spirituality in the antagonism you create in this way. Content is marginal comparing to the relationship and the behavior in terms of transformation and self development (someone once said here: the "how" in spirituality is more important than the "what"). This way you block yourself, distant any opportunity for genuine dialog and cultivate ego in yourself and in others. Pity.

Finaly, based on my experience, extreme abstraction not only that it does not feel crapy to the mind, it is mind big time. Extreme abstraction is a neurotic analysis, perpetual analysis that have gone out of control that spins and spins and yields nothing.

dora | Thu, 10/01/2009 - 19:45