Mantra & Tantra

Mastercvvyoga's picture



Average: 4.1 (10 votes)

-Master Sarvari Namaskaram-
-Master CVV Namaskaram-

Mantra works on power of sound.
Yoga works on power of Silence.
Both of them do not go together. Truly mantra doesn’t come under Yoga. The practice of Mantra needs rigorous discipline. Because of its strict adherence, it is categorized under Yoga. Mantra and Tantra are twins. Both bless worldly rewards. Yoga is basically higher consciousness. It is Bliss Eternal. It is the heart and Pulse of God. What we achieve by Mantra and Tantra cannot be compared to the higher consciousness that we gain by Yoga. There is abundant selfishness in these twin arts. Where as Yoga leads to real Self.

The Mantra is in our ancient culture where as Tantra is tribal in nature. Man’s Mystic power lies in the mantra. When man’s mind was not matured, Mantra dominated man. Slowly it had become a ritual. Finally it dissolved in the spiritual and began to lose its identity. The power of sound is the basic principle of mantra.

“In – O! Aditya (lord Sun), please help us with your blessings.” – This sort of prayer became our first Mantra. Similar prayers were called Psalms in Christianity and Dyan Cohans in Buddhism.

A big paraphernalia surrounded them in course of time. So Mantra and Tantra go hand in hand. So long as man is adherent to discipline and sincerity the Mantras are useful. When man began to declare that he is god or godhead, Mantra lost its power. Tantra slowly retreated into the forests and solitudes. Man, with matured intellect began to question the authenticity of mantra and Tantra. The nature of questioning pushed man to probe into the unknown. That probing became Yoga. Probing leads man first into nothingness, then into finding something beyond – Man, after crossing the threshold of mind enters in utter dark silence. There he could find a wonderful power, which really is his own. The yogic intelligence named it ‘POWER OF SELF’ or Atma Sakthi. The key that opens the doors of Heart’s chambers is in Yoga. So, Mantra is meant to please gods. Yoga is understood as the key to find out one’s own inner power.

Every Mantra represents a god or goddess. It is a symbol of some divine intelligence. For the reason of its secrecy and vulnerable acts, common people are scared. The Mantra lost its purity and usefulness in the selfish hands of Tantrics and Mantrics. There may be a few pandits of mantra here and there, but they don’t come out in good spirits.

The rules and regulations are stringent in almost all our ancient systems of Yoga. Even the Yoga teachers warn of the consequences, if they fail. Celibacy is the main hurdle in Yoga. Gaining control over the senses is another hurdle, fasting is the third hurdle. Every religion promulgates certain rules and regulations. Thus they establish the supremacy of the teachers. One should practice all rituals in the presence of a learned master. Now we can’t follow such discipline.

Traditionalists believe Yoga as a passage to liberation Moksha. Previously they had that faith in meditation and renunciation. Later they shifted their faith to Yoga. The purpose of Yoga is not Moksha at all. It is an unending experiment in the realms beyond. In the process some yogis give stress on Kundalini in order to awaken one’s own energy, lying in Mooladhara. Some Sadhakas mistake higher consciousness as the power of Kundalini. Wherever the ascending energy got stuck, they began to concentrate on that particular point, and named it a center. Some others observed that such energy reaching the head center through a subtle tube and they called it Sushumna. They were perturbed at the power stagnating in the head center. It began to spread in different directions, in thousand colors and shades. They don’t know how to send it still higher. In the modern times, Yogis of high wisdom discarded the Kundalini Energy concept and enjoyed such energy as Super Conscience. The center for such awakening is no other than heart. That is the heart center.

If we study the ancient literature of any country we find some similarities. There are other worlds similar to that of the Earth. There are super human beings with supra-mental faculties and powers. That shows, man believed in supernatural powers from the very beginning. So, he created God-forms and personalities similar to man forms. Such creations are our Gods, Angels etc. They are nothing but replica of man. Because we cannot travel to those lands, we call them subtle Lokas. They possess astral bodies. We cannot see them with physical sight. So, an Insight becomes necessary to see them. An astral body becomes necessary to meet and chat with them.

The world had enough number of saints, Rishies, mystics and Tantrics from time immemorial. All of them believed in the other worlds. Some of them even met and talked with them. There are evidences that many such Rishies had acquired wonderful mystic powers more powerful than our atom bombs and nuclear weapons. Not only in India, but also in almost all countries of the world, that belief was prevalent. So, evidently we must accept those super natural powers. So much so, the other worlds. They might be planes invisible. Though not with our physical get up, our own astral bodies could visit those mystic lands. We leave only our physical frames on Earth and our Astral bodies take a flight to those dream worlds. After the departure of souls, these physical bodies dissolve and merge in the five elements of nature. Ultimately the Soul gains nothing or loses nothing. It comes and goes as a temporary visitor.

All souls do not exit in the same way. The souls of great Rishies, Yogis and saints remain here on Earth for a good cause. Their physicals dissolve, but their soul bodies evolve and attain permanancy. They continue to help the needed aspirants. Their higher intelligence is distributed in every field, where progress and perfection is felt necessary. We can see them, if we have a mind.



madan_gautam's picture

Kundalini

So you say that Kundalini is of no use in Enlightenment & Libration?
Then will you please tell me that what are the use of 22 Upnishads on kundalini out of 108.
Each one has its point of view but it does not mean that the importance of other prominent path is criticized.
No realized one has ever criticized Kundalini & its importance as no one has reached to ultimate goal with out IT.
Believe it or not.
OM

madan_gautam | Mon, 08/10/2009 - 13:00
Phroggy's picture

I don't run in the same

I don't run in the same circle of gurus as you do, but while I've also never heard any of them criticize it, i've also never heard them declare it was even of importance much less required, when it comes to Self realization. While it is not denied that these energy arisings occur, it has no particular significsance to Self realization, which is beyond all physical phenomena, including energy. The fact that mystical stories have been built around this phenomena does not imply they have any reality. Much of Eastern spirituality seems to be built on mythical stories. All phenomena arise within this Self, and so how could such passing phenomena cause the realization of Self? Nothing actually causes Self realization. It unfolds as part of the unified movement of consciousness itself, as all of experience does.

I wonder where you got the notion that Self realization has never happened without it. Perhaps it's just your preferred story, since you're in the Kundalini business?

Phroggy | Mon, 08/10/2009 - 22:06
madan_gautam's picture

Since you're in the Kundalini business?

Namaste
First initially I also used to think that the much of Eastern spirituality seems to be built on mythical stories.
But after going deep and experiencing some of them I have come to conclusion that what ever has written is mostly correct.
I am not saying 100% but at least 90 to 95%.
Second I am not in any short of business of any thing.
Even I started my journey of search to find the correctness of Eastern system from Astrology,taking it as fake/false but after learning it and applying on the personal charts I have found the Truth behind it.like so I have found the same Truth in the field of Spirituality.
Yes mere Awakening of Kundalini does not means Realization but this Awakening leads to Realization.This Awakening is not physical phenomena,as it seems to happen in physical body but actually it happens in subtle body and only reflections/symptoms occurs in physical body.
Kundalini is Itself Adi Shakti/Para Shakti.
OM

madan_gautam | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 02:43
Mastercvvyoga's picture

about kundalini

There is importance for Kundalini. In our Meditation program(Master's Meditation) we dont give much importance to Kundalini. Off course, while initiation we (Our Guru or Guide) awakens the Kundalini of the person. Once the Initiation process is over, he will be linked with the Master CVV. Its a new line, new direction and new path. In other meditation programs Kundalini energy starts from the Mooladhara Chakra. But here the energy comes to Sahasrara(Head centre) and distributes evenly.
Why we wont give importance to Kundalini is, its just a confusion to the disciple.
khbbind

Mastercvvyoga | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 04:13
Phroggy's picture

I don't usually talk about

I don't usually talk about such things here, mostly because I realize i have no credibility with you or anyone else on this forum, but i seem to have a few minutes to spare so i'll jabber on mindlessly.

It's necessary to look into what it means to validate such things such as mythical stories and astrology, which is not to say they are not valid, but to question what that means in a spiritual context.

Physicality is an illusion of form, a kind of dream reality, while Truth points beyond the dream to the dreamer. Just as in our nightly dreams, cause and effect are not operative within the dream. Rather, all causes and all effects originate in the dreamer. This alone tells us nothing is required within the dream for enlightenment to happen, and it says that nothing within the dream can cause it to come about. It also says that nothing found within the dream can say anything meaningful about the dreamer itself, which is prior to everything experienced.

So, does astrology work? Yes, it has become such a part of our dream reality that it can be said to be valid. Someone posted today about the 'evil eye', sometimes referred to in other cultures as Voodoo or curses. While it may sound crazy to some, if it becomes a part of a cultural belief system, it will in fact be 'validated' within that belief system, though it will likely fail miserably outside of that culture. The 90 to 95% validation of mythical stories that you have found in the East will not proove so accurate in the West because there is not the belief in them, and so they do not so easily form in the dreamscape.

The point is not the validity or invalidity of things like astrology, kundalini, various metaphysical practices, Evil Eye or mythical stories. The point is, if they are simply dream experiences that cannot help one to realize what is beyond the dream, are they not really just a distraction from the seeking of Truth?

Phroggy | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 05:20
Omkaradatta's picture

The dream and the dreamer...

The notion of turning attention to 'the dreamer' is nothing but a teaching tool.

The dreamer is the dream.

There is no separation.

One is what one perceives, now.

This will never change. Anyone trying to get from 'here' to 'there' might as well give up. There is nowhere to go.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 06:17
Omkaradatta's picture

P.S.

P.S. I mean no offense, but in a very real way, Phroggy fits in with the group here.

The group is seeking something. Phroggy is seeking something. It may be by different means, but the search is the same.

I don't fit in with the group. I *am* the group, arising absolutely synchronously as 'here and now', as 'what is', utterly absent any search for something 'outside', something 'other'.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 06:50
Phroggy's picture

Perhaps it would be useful

Perhaps it would be useful to ask yourself why you find it necessary to elevate yourself above everyone else. I don't fit in mostly because my background is very different. You don't fit in because of your particular delusion of enlightenment that implies a subtle superiority.

Phroggy | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 07:44
suzame's picture

enlightened quality

But he is not enlightened, no offense, he is unique and sometimes intriguing but no way enlightened, there is a certain special quality and stillness surrounding realized people or very advanced ones, you sense it immediately, it's not what they say but how they say it, hard to explain.

suzame | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 13:32
Bercano's picture

Suzame...You must own a

Suzame...You must own a Manual on how a Enlightened Person conducts them-selves?....does it say by any chance that their poop don't stink anymore??

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 18:21
mula's picture

Rediculous standpoint

He doesn't need a manual. Anyone who had the opportunity to meet a lot of people in the "spiritual industry" can relate to what suzame writes. Of course you can feel an advanced one before he even opens his mouth.

Your tacit assumption is that there is no connection whatsoever between the essence and the outer expression. Apart of being absurd, it must be righteous or naive. I haven't heard about a special metaphysical magic that only in the case of enlightened ones dawns and breaks the connection between the inner and the outer.

mula | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 18:40
Bercano's picture

You know ...it's that thing

You know ...it's that thing with assumptions....That Maps Out, "a THAT is the WAY a person is/should Be", when Enlightened/Self-realized....such is done in closed mind/as well as heart....and such is done cos we feed upon a Modeling, on this or that enlightened/self realized being....and so any deviation cannot be Enlighted?

.....how about lets NOT fit Enlightened People in a Box....their poop not Only stinks...yet they also, STILL can get Pissed off.....LOLLLLL

another ponder: is the Agenda...of an Enlightened person that You call, is in the ~Spiritual Industry~....quite frankly....those Poor Bastards (all though they may very well be self-realized/enlightened)can become slaves ...cos they have to sell an Image, of how an Enlightened being behaves/speaks etc... and YOU, are Buying it!!!...and NOT ONLY are you Buying it, you and Suzame are revamping and trying to sell it all over...as IFFFF thats an *Absolute* for any Enlightened/Self-Realized person/being.

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 22:04
Omkaradatta's picture

Silliness ;-)

"Of course you can feel an advanced one before he even opens his mouth."

You are sitting alone, by yourself right now, in front of a computer.

There is no 'advanced one' with you, and cannot be typing/receiving posts on a computer.

Fwiw, the author doesn't care whether viewed as 'awake' or not, is perfectly fine with being seen as ignorant and foolish.

One sees oneself, in one's various aspects. One does not see "another", ever.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 22:22
david's picture

Amusing is the mind

It always amuses me how agendas are driven from motives and fears and how come the one driving the agenda is not aware of it.

Suddenly out of nowhere there is only one type of object in the cosmos, only one type of object which its inner essence, its soul, is completely disconnected from its outer behavior. A malfunction of God, a cosmic anomaly, a defect in the divine creation.

A ripe fruit, a healthy individual, a joyful animal all indicate the inner state but no! not regarding advanced souls. In their case, it is arbitrary, it is chaotic, it is the opposite.... hhhhh

The true things cannot be reached through games of words a la neo advaita. There is indeed some intense presence (you can call it energy or by whatever words you prefer) around a realized one which the mind and words cannot understand. You can not know it unless you leave the convenient computer and typing/receiving words and meet real people that some seem to be so afraid of up to a degree that they use so many mind manipulations and misunderstanding of advaita to negate their relative existence.

david | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 06:07
Omkaradatta's picture

Good idea...

"You can not know it unless you leave the convenient computer and typing/receiving words and meet real people"

Good idea, David. I suggest to get away from the computer, and go meet real people.

At minimum, *be real* and take one's own suggestion offered so freely to a perceived 'other', which in actuality is the other half of one's own self-image.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 07:12
doo's picture

selfish

You all above who take part in this chitchat which has no relevance to the original post - how self centered you can be? it happens again and again by the same people... if you cannot help it and control your exhibitionistic urges at least open a new forum topic and discuss there, why spoil this post? why intrude someone else blogs and discussions?

doo | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 07:57
Phroggy's picture

"You all above who take part

"You all above who take part in this chitchat which has no relevance to the original post - how self centered you can be?"

I'm amazed at how selfish and self centered and judgmental you can be. Here the perfection of Divinity is expressing to offer you an opportunity to accept, and offering others whatever opprtunity is needed for them, and instead of being grateful for this Divine expression of God, you condemn God for his exhibitionistic urges and tell him to go away. What else is happening here but God/consciousness in expression? Do you still believe you are a person in the world with your own free will and there are others around you who are behaving badly?

Is there something about the comments which have somehow changed the original post? Would it be a problem if there were? Isn't dealing with your judgment part of your spiritual work? Does God make mistakes? Is it all about what YOU want to see on this public forum? Could it be that you are the one intruding on this discussion? Does that strike you as selfish and self centered?

Could it be it's all a matter of perspective and none of it is really a problem to begin with? :)

Phroggy | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:29
Bercano's picture

There is indeed some intense presence

well Yeahhhh,...Adolf Hitler, Charles Mason, Ted Bandy and then Some, had such presence.......Psychopath, are USUALLY Self-Realized..............an expression of Self, that JUSTTT doesnt give a crap about right/wrong-evil..............Nonduality @ it's Best sorta speak.....LOLLL

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 13:58
Phroggy's picture

And my comment "delusion of

And my comment "delusion of enlightenment" had a very specific meaning along those lines. :)

As for certain special stillness qualities and other woo woo indicators of enlightened awareness, my considered opinion on the matter is.....bullshit. You create a guru image, then allow only properly 'dressed' gurus to enter your exclusive club, and point to the clubhouse members as proof that all REAL gurus dress, look, smell and feel just like that.

It would shock you to realize that you have no doubt encountered many self realized 'individuals' and never had a clue, because it was not in their nature to fulfill your definitions of what a guru should be. Without those outer clues, you can't activate that 'certain indefinable quality' that mind invents to authenticate said guru.

The dude who bags your groceries may actually be 'enlightened'. How uninspiring! He won't care whether you're aware of it or not. In the year and a half I've been on this forum, I believe I've encountered three such baggers come through here, and one is still here. I don't base that on some certain special woo woo quality so much as on the resonanace of their words which reflect an actual, rather than conceptual, understanding, together with an absence of unconsciousness. This has ocurred many times on various forums, and one thing i notice is that they are typically derided, condescended to and generally spat on. The irony is so delicious that I can't find room to feel sorry for anybody involved.

Having said that, there is also no way I can know for sure because i cannot see beyond my own level of awareness. I can, however, see an imaginary 'level' which I have transcended, and so most of the deluded ones stick out like a sore thumb.

Most folks are unconscious, and from that state, all one sees is one's own projection of guru, and the guru cannot be seen, heard or woo woo felt at all. This is why the guru is not even talking to you but rather to himSelf, while hoping what you think you are doesn't obstruct the conversation too much.

Phroggy | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 22:44
Omkaradatta's picture

BTW...

BTW, sorry if that post came across as 'superior sounding', Phroggy. I thought it might, right after posting it, but for whatever reason decided to leave it there as it is... possibly cuz I really don't care beans about this forum in general, and any 'social image' I may or may not have among its residents.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 22:47
genep's picture

Bullsh't

"As for certain special stillness qualities and other woo woo indicators of enlightened awareness, my considered opinion on the matter is.....bullshit. You create a guru image, then allow only properly 'dressed' gurus to enter your exclusive club, and point to the clubhouse members as proof that all REAL gurus dress, look, smell and feel just like that..."

Phroggy ... When I laugh at what you write, I get a strong feeling that it is you laughing.

- really

genep | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 03:06
banana's picture

The real bullshit

It seems that you have no clue about what you are talking about. Bullshit is talking with such fake confidence about things which are a product of interpretation.

You remind me of skeptic psychologists who interpret any of the spiritual experiences of their patient based on their tacit skeptic psychological doctrine and will not dare, out of great fear, to open even for a moment to the possibility that their protective view is absurd.

When you have the opportunity to meet in real, not through your radical views, advanced souls, you will indeed laugh at your old sweeping perceptions. I suggest you to hit the road...

banana | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 05:47
Phroggy's picture

~Bullshit is talking with

~Bullshit is talking with such fake confidence about things which are a product of interpretation.~

Did we cave in some rabbit holes that time?:)
Maybe you missed the part where I said "In my opinion"?

Okiay, maybe this is the place to talk about giraffe sightings. It can be noticed (by some) that very little actual communication takes place. It's more like an odd, unconscious, mutual regurgitation in which everybody is talking to themselves about themselves while imagining that they have heard what the other said and are responding to it in some informed way. What's really odd to watch is when two unconscious peeps are talking and neither one is listening, so nobody even notices they weren't even heard, so they keep on talking to and about themselves as though real communication is happening.

Mind sees what it wants to see and projects what it doesn't want to see. This has great importance in Self realization, but before that possibility is even approached, it's necessary to learn how to see what is here. It's a bit like looking at a tree and thinking it's giraffe and wondering if you can get a ride. An involved discussion may occur about whether the giraffe will give you a ride and what it would be like to ride him and nobody ever stops to notice it's just a tree.

The above is a minor example but it serves the purpose. Phroggy offers an opinion and clearly states it as such. Banana ostensibly reads the words and comes to the conclusion that the opinion is bullshit because really, it's just a matter of opinion.

One could reasonably argue that it's pointless to point out that there are no guraffes there, because inevitably, more giraffes will be spotted as evidence that there really are giraffes there. This is the nobility of the spiritual seeker, and while it's not cause for judgment, it is cause for great laughter, best kept to oneself. :)

Phroggy | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 06:37
Omkaradatta's picture

Yup...

Every last post about 'other', 'you' -- is about "me".

This is precisely why there is no 'me'. The 'me' is a product of 'you', co-arises with the 'you', in the same 'location'.

The 'you' is mind-constructed based on one's own self-image.

There is, therefore, no 'you' and no 'me'.

Of course, merely pointing this out verbally is useless... this is a wordless 'seeing' in a wholistic way, not a mind-based conclusion. The whole basis for maintaining 'ego' falls apart.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 06:47
genep's picture

Communication

"~Bullshit is talking with such fake confidence about things which are a product of interpretation.~"
======================

the closer physicists look at particles
the more Certainly the Uncertainty Principle makes them vanish.

The more one tries to observe thoughts in meditation the more they do better than vanish -- they are never there.

the closer one looks at communication (the flow of words, thoughts) the more obvious it gets that there is NO SUCH thing –
IT CANNOT BE ANY OTHER WAY.
Communication does not make the many into One -- on the contrary it is what multiplies the ONE into MANY.
Communication separates and divides, creates chaos that sometimes needs wars, even Epic Battles, to multiply the ONE into many.

-- really, Really REALLY.

genep | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 12:46
Bercano's picture

Useful....LOLLL

GREATTT Comments on the topic....most certainly resonates with;)
Kundalini, can be the Ice-cream Sunday to someone.....while to another a trip to the Insane asylum.....LOLLL and so yeah, I can easily see why it can be more so a distraction.

HUGE SMILESS....as for the tip on Usefulness....Rolling on floor LOLLLLLLL...thankx ;)

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 18:15
genep's picture

Fisherman

I keep thinking: why do you sound like a fisherman who uses nonduality as bait to hopefully suck your victims into your black hole: http://www.omkaradatta.info ??

And when your bait fails then you have the audacity to patronize, lecture or correct someone who is OBVIOUSLY below you because they do not take your bait.

go get laid and have some kids: you can use all your karma-points to force them to swallow your bait before society brainwashes them with dualities.

-- really kindly

genep | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 22:32
Omkaradatta's picture

Why?

"I keep thinking: why do you sound like a fisherman who uses nonduality as bait to hopefully suck your victims into your black hole: http://www.omkaradatta.info ??"

There's no advertising on the page, no spam, no money requested, no interest in personal recognition, no reason why I'd want to 'phish' for people.

But please do make something up if ya like, and post on it. The more focus on 'others' one can generate, the more one can distract from one's own dilemma, one's suffering.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 22:36
mayasurfer's picture

Stupid

Genep, really stupid and nasty your sweeping statements. Have you ever actually looked at Omkar's website? Of course not. Have a look, it might be the best thing you have ever done in your life. There is nothing patronizing or lecturing, simply stating the facts as they are. One of the last things he pointed out is that the "you" is mind-constructed based on one's own self image". So if you tell Omkar to get laid and have some kids who do you actually mean?

mayasurfer | Thu, 08/13/2009 - 10:10
genep's picture

living proof

you are living proof that http://www.omkaradatta.info
is indeed what I suspected: a Black Hole for truth and wisdom.

=============
the way I read the posts: Phroggy's posts obviously work like a magnet
that makes Omkaradatta follow him around like a puppy –

I like the magnet – I don't need puppies.

-- really

genep | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 15:25
Omkaradatta's picture

Well then...

Well then, don't have puppies about having puppies ;-).

Phroggy and I are phriends, that's why I tend to reply to his posts -- by knowing him outside the forum, from many other different places.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 15:31
bonya basu's picture

Wonderfull Explanation

Wonderfull explanation you have given.To find the TRUTH your mind should be open, not with fixed idea.Ofcourse one can start with fixed idea, next is GOD's will.With my experience I would like to add,If you have a sincere wish to know something the path will automatically come to you.
This physical world is the manifestation of your subtle thoughts.
Jai Gurudev.

bonya basu | Tue, 08/11/2009 - 07:18
genep's picture

Kundalini Business

"I wonder where you got the notion that Self realization has never happened without it. Perhaps it's just your preferred story, since you're in the Kundalini business?"

--
Papaji tells a good story about Samadhi. About a goat-herder who went into Samadhi for a few days and when he returned to life his ONLY concern was to find his goats and NOT devotees – SO MUCH for Kundalini, Samadhi waking someone up.

Probably hundreds of thousands of people every day get hit by Kundalini but very very few are ready “in the right state of mind” – like Buddha was – to realize its significance... alias Self-realization.

Indeed unless the Kundalini is connected to an outer guru
it is universally taken to be some sort of insanity. And according to most of the experts in the Kundalini business this insanity is realization.

-- Really Really

genep | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 03:34
genep's picture

Continued

“Indeed unless the Kundalini is connected to an outer guru
it is universally taken to be some sort of insanity. And according to most of the experts in the Kundalini business this insanity is realization.”
=-=====================
for example Eckhart Tolle was dumbfounded when Kundalini hit him .. it took him years to get oriented .... on the other hand Osho was ready – he knew exactly what Kundalini was when it changed his mind forever.

BUT MOSTLY: Kundalini can come with limitless numbers and types of waves, dynamics and doses from subtle waves of pleasure ... to devil defying terrorizing explosions that make even the worst death appear to be a picnic.

I don't think that Osho or Buddha would have found much realization if the kundalini that hit them was “devil defying terrorizing explosion of Kundalini that makes even the worst death appear to be a picnic.”

genep | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 04:16
Phroggy's picture

Zakly. It's natural for mind

Zakly. It's natural for mind to think Self realization is some kind of woo woo experience and so Kundalini and Samadhi usually fit the bill. Nuthin to do after that but become a Kundalini/Samadhi salesman and start an Ashram.

Phroggy | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 04:49
bonya basu's picture

GURU

GURU is a gyana(knowledge).The knowledge you have already within,aquired by so many lives.The physical "GURU" lightens that Knowledge.Only one strike is needed to open the door of knowledge,that striker is GURU.True GURU transforms the mind of diciple.Onece the conscious mind awakens rest of the things are experience and feeling.Everything can not be explain in words,one has to experience,feel.It is exclusively my experience I shared,It may help somebody.
jai GURUDEv...............................

bonya basu | Wed, 08/12/2009 - 08:20
joshoda's picture

The only words of wisdom

The only words of wisdom that I could gather Out of 34 comments on Tantra and Mantra are as following:
1. Had Kundalini been a Business then Bill Gates would have been enlightened by now.
2. People like to give opinion rather than to listen to the opinion.
3. Super man still exists, coz one is able to roll down on the floor and laugh, at the same time post a comment.
4. My guru would walk into my exclusive club, wearing a long robe and most probably a cap …………..Oh!!!!! he would look, smell and feel just like Osho……..eyes of Osho, silence of Osho and delights of Osho.
5. It is easy to sight a giraffe coz they are tall. But would rat ever spot a giraffe? For that matter even short sightedness people will be in trouble.
6. When Giraffe have an argument with banana or a rabbit in a broad daylight the owl get disturbed, coz it is his sleeping hour. So he finds everyone so self centered.
7 Enlightenment is a blissful woo woo experience.
I could gather all this except tantra and mantra……………
can anybody put some light on this mantra and tantra and for the things which i have misunderstood.

joshoda | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 05:27
Phroggy's picture

Sounds like you pretty much

Sounds like you pretty much have it figured out to me. Hehe.

Phroggy | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 08:54
Omkaradatta's picture

People...

People have been speaking on 'nondual' topics for at least 2000 years... what more is there to say, really? ;-p.

Anything ever wanted on tantra, mantra, yantra, cilantra, can be found in a book, or from a guru, or someone else, or from Mount Arunachala, etc... except the truth, which is found only in one 'location' ever.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 14:51
Phroggy's picture

As I see it, it's not the

As I see it, it's not the speaking that matters but the 'looking' and listening that MAY go along with it. This can happen while reading a book or from a guru or even by staring at Mt. Arunachula. It also works to beat one's head against the wall because it feels sooooo good to stop. IOW, it all works, just rarely in the way folks THINK it's working.

Phroggy | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 18:24
genep's picture

mantra and tantra

I think “mantra and tantra” might well be/should-be the name of a Michael Jackson song –
... that worked especially well to drive his devotees crazy
.. and just like with Osho, they even threw their money at him;
in a way that even the most kundalini-drunk gurus must envy.

- REALLY

genep | Fri, 08/14/2009 - 13:49