Love - I was fooling myself

Gilana's picture



Average: 4.5 (10 votes)

For years I looked around and said, "If this is God's manifestation, I should be finding love. How cme I don't feel it? All I get is poison.." meaning demands, dissapointment, hope then disillusionment.

Now I see a shining soft home beyond this world. A everlasting, unchanging radient love, unaltered by me or anyone else. Always shining, always loving, alive.

Why did I look here?



johnd's picture

please explain

What exactly do you mean by "beyond this world"?

According to my experience, this energy called love with the familiar feeling of love accompanied to it when the energy flows can be felt here and now (if the systems are in a balanced state).

johnd | Tue, 12/22/2009 - 07:12
Gilana's picture

I'll try

My systems are almost never in a balanced state!

When I said "beyond this world" I meant the always present radience of love beyond experience, beyond daily interaction, beyond (sorry Adi Da) relationship. But I think I only mean it on the material level--I find these interactions to be full of landmines and only by reallllly working at it, do I get past the apparent unconsciousness to the real love underlying and motivating all action.

One "idea" I cling to now is the statement by my own Guru who asserts, "All human action is motivated by desire for God, hunger for the truth. Human beings are not capable of anything else." (It's only an "idea" for me...not for him.)

I really am a novice at this and I know plenty of people say what you seem to be saying...I just can't feel it easily and I'm still scarred of getting kicked.

The reason I started this discussion is to get lots of input on how people more skilled at perceiving love do it. Please tell me more of your experience. Thanks!

Gilana | Tue, 12/22/2009 - 16:32
Quantum's picture

Something from own...

experience.

I know you were asking the other poster, but I'd be happy to share something small from my own experience to foster mutual benefit and advancement.

I'm learning to deal with frustration by focusing fully on my breath. For a brief, maybe 1/4 of a second of clocktime, I feel a moment of relief. It feels like I'm thrown a lifeline. The thought comes in my head that says, "Yes, throw me a lifeline. Thank you." And, "Throw me a life line again."

There is a new, fleeting, experience, and sensation, for that brief micro-second, that I am separated from my mind and my ego's frustrations. It is brief, but it is like a runner running under a sprinker system. It is a sense of relief. I try to stay there and try to extend those moments. 100% mental attention focus concentration of the mind on the breath here now seems to trigger this experience.

I like it very very very very very,.......very very.. oh so very very much.

Namaste.

"And He gave him 'The Breath of Life.'"

Quantum | Wed, 12/23/2009 - 22:48
Gilana's picture

Breath of Life

Thank you for the comment...the technique sound like it works really well for you.

Does it help you to experience love?

Gilana | Sun, 12/27/2009 - 05:30
Quantum's picture

Does it help you to experience love?

"Does it help you to experience love?"

No.. I don't think so. Not the mind and ego based romantic type of love anyway.

I suppose further advancement might lead to "unity consciouss" and "we are all one in the spirit consciousness" which is the Agape type of love that Jesus tried to sell. He was a very highly advanced being. He was much farther along the path than say my mind identification. I'm still snacking the fruit of knowledge of opposites, I'm afraid. I'm (Higher Self, subject) still identified with my (subject) mind (object).

What I think focusing on the breath does, is that it forces both of the entities inside of me, my mind (object) and my "awareness" (Higher Self) to concentrate on one formless thing. So when my mind (self1, or lower self) and awareness (SELF 2, or HIGHER SELF) both focus on a single object (breath, mantra), then there is less mental activity for my "HIGHER SELF" to identify with. And what I think is happening is that this brings about the emergence of the DETACHED WITNESS.

It's amazing. It's like a flip flopping vantage points from mind identification to detached Witness/Observer, and then simultaneous vantage points. Sort of like seeing simultaneously from both the left eye and the right eye.

Anway, the experience is new to me. I wish I had someone to talk to about it who was more experienced, and can answer my minds questions without giving pompous "hide the ball" BS spirituality non-ansers.

In a way, while this experience I described is probably a journey towards "ONE-NESS", which is love (Agape.) It is possible based on your initial post, and reading it from an earlier perspective, that maybe you are actually, or at least subconsciously, talking about romantic type love. In that regard, indeed my meditations do not lead me to experience romantic love. My goal is ...well...detachment, separation, liberation, and salvation from my stress and anxiety ridden mind and all it's nasty issues. Can you believe, that once again, my mental stress and anxiety is today again reflected in our water heater breaking down? This is the second time in 2 years! We bought it brand new for God's sake! Last year this happened, and it took 8 days of beurocracy to get it repaired. Messages in Water, explains water's reaction to emotional states.

Anyway....sorry.. I vented on your post. It's so cold here without hot water. Showers are a chill.

Years ago in college, I heared some female friends talking, they said, "Relationships are hard to figure out." That pretty much sums it all up, in that area.

Whenever I was single and alone, I sort of felt like what comes through in your first post. But I suppose from a metaphysical sence, my subconscious seemed to manifest partners for me when I needed them the most. You can want one consciously, but what I learned from all this metaphysical stuff, is that subconscious blocks can hinder what we might want consciously. Anyway...you posted your question on this Spiritual forum, so the replies may contain some spiritual or metaphysical slant to them.

Quantum | Sun, 12/27/2009 - 18:57
Gilana's picture

Breath

Maybe I can give some answer, although I'm only on the very edge of understanding what is meant by this answer.

Osho has dedicated an entire chapter in his book, "The Book of Secrets," to breath. (42 pages!) The very first technique of 114 is on breath! In the second paragraph, he says, "Mind is always in desire...Always the object is in the future; mind is not concerned with the present at all. When breath stops, in this moment the mind cannot move--there is no space. If you can do something with the breath, you will suddenly turn to the present...you can attain to the source of life."

My master, Premodaya, says, "Within breath there is something so great, so divine that you could never be responsible for it."

They both say much more, but here are two more techniques to do with breath:

1. Watch the gap between two breaths. (He asks: When you are moving with breath minutely, when there is no breath how can you remain unaware?") This techinique is practiced by millions around the world. Only this technique and thousands and thousands have attained enlightenment through it.

2. Watch the turning point between two breaths. As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves from up to down -- through both these turns, realize. Why are the turnings so important? Because on turning, the breath leaves you to move in a different direction.

He says: I wonder if you have observed it or not: if you stop your breath, the mind stops suddenly. Because they are disjoined. Only a moving breath is joined with the mind, with the body; a nonmoving breath is disjoined. You are in the neutral gear.

Hope that helps...let me know if you want me to relate more.

PS My post was about turning from any love to be found in the world to that which comes from the source. But thanks!

Gilana | Thu, 12/31/2009 - 07:14
Quantum's picture

Breathe, and OSHO

Thank you for the info about the breath. I may check out that book of Secrets you mentioned by OSHO. Not sure I've heared of it.

This evening, I just finished reading "Beyond the Breath" about Whole Body Vipassana. Reading so many books, I feel cheated after reading through an entire book and then feeling afterwards like most of it was babble and filler.

Sometimes, reading too much just leaves the mind adled. And that's a good time to stop thinking, forget what I read, and just focus on my breathing. It's supposed to be simple that we can learn it from children. Or birds. Or flowers in the field. How they grow.

Speaking of books, I read two or three books by Ram Dass these past two weeks. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I savored and enjoyed reading every sentence. His writing feels good to read (not dry), he wrote plainly, and seemed to speak to me directly about almost everything I wanted to hear about from a Guru. He seems to speak from personal experience and insight. Maybe that's what it feels like when reading things from someone who speaks from experience.

Namaste.

Quantum | Thu, 12/31/2009 - 08:01
Gilana's picture

Got to be the right track

If Ram Dass is easy to read, that's got to mean something. I know what you mean about the babble and filler...I can't read anything but Osho and my Guru...it makes me physically ill! Like motion sickness :)

I've never read Ram Dass, although I think I know who he is. He seems clear enough, although I don't want to risk it.

If you want to see what Osho is like look up "Could this be love?" video clip of him...it's hilarious. (you have to watch a good bit of it before it gets funny.)

A video clip is a good way to get a taste of who he is before letting yourself in for a book. And that particular book is HUGE, because it contains all of Shiva's techniques (114 of them!) and explanation of how they work and why. Osho says he tried all of them, so he understands them personally.

Good luck!

Gilana | Thu, 12/31/2009 - 19:19
Quantum's picture

He is FUNNY!

Oh my gosh! I love this guy already. He's hilarious!

12 years ago, I would have been turned off by the diamond wrist watch, but now my psyche seems to be looking at things from a different vantage point.

On one extreme, I have wondered what good is it for anyone to be "enlightened" but sit isolated--in some cases not even speaking to anyone--from the rest of society? How does that benefit anyone besides that person? (Hey, even some catholic monks do that too. Not just cave or forest dwelling sanyasis.)

On the other extreme, what good is it gain the whole world, but be empty inside? Jesus said that one.

And then...somewhere in the middle, Jesus and Osho seem to meet. Jesus said, "Seek first [Heaven, Brahman, Buddha Nature, Nirvana, Stillness, Beyond beyond, yimmer yammer, what ever spiritual noun you may prefer], and the rest will be added besides."

Jesus did not say, "Seek first Spiritual Evolution, and keep out everything else."

And Osho seems to have no qualms about his diamond wrist watch either. :)

Quantum | Fri, 01/01/2010 - 00:48
Gilana's picture

Zorba the Buddha

Osho says this is the New Man, the man who comes from true religion. Zorba: full of life, celebration, zest and love and Buddha: fully immerced in silence, meditation.

He even has a resteraunt named "Zorba the Buddha"

He got in a lot of trouble with Buddhists cause of it. :)

P.S. His watch was one of many his disciples made for him...it's not diamonds--he says it's made of "REAL" stones. (Not sure what he's talking about.)

Also you must know...he owned 99 Rolls Royces when he died (I think it was only 99). He was trying for 360...one for each day. My master says the guy was a master capitalist too...each rolls could sell for many times it's value after Osho drove it. Amazing income for his Ashram.

Gilana | Fri, 01/01/2010 - 01:39
Quantum's picture

Hmmm....

I guess there's nothing wrong with material wealth. I forgot that Abraham, maybe Lot too, were both wealthy by today's standards. They owned many camels. Sort of like owning many cars. God made them rich. Somewhere along the line, it seemed like it wasn't hip to be rich, you had to be poor, docile, meek to go to heaven, but you were certainly welcome to give your money to the church. Oh yeah...give give give. Just don't keep any for yourself. Give it away.

I have a question for you about meditation and vipassana. I think you posted something about Inner Body meditation and Vipassana. If that wasn't you, I apologize for my bad memory, but please feel free to share what you know.

Let's say a negative emotion flows through me. For example, let's say some moron nearly clips me in the parking lot at Wal-Mart as I am walking out of the store towards my car in the parking lot. This makes me perturbed. Mad. Now...here's the scarey part, the reason I am so into this meditation and "Liberation" stuff. Just believe my claim, because I've experienced it and continue to do so, if I did not, I wouldn't be here "searching" for a solution. Okay..when that negative emotion runs through me, that seething boiling "I wanna break your window and then call the cops to arrest you for negligent driving" kind of anger"...that strong negative emotion inside me "MANIFESTS and ATTRACTS" negative angry events and negative angry sitatuions and negative angry people. And it becomes a vicious cycle. Sometimes I need to run home, go to my roon, close the door, hide under the bed and wait for the day to end.. so to speak. My negative emotions do attract negative angry events situations and people. I want a way out of this.

Mining this forum for answers, and re-reading Eckart Tolle hundreds of times, I think the solution is:

"Feel the energy of the emotion, feel the somatic sensation of the emotion. Just feel it. It will dissolve."

Otherwise, ignoring it will simply repress it into the body where it lies dormant and becomes subconscious, karmaically influencing future experiences. And making us sickly. Ulcers, stress, etc.

Feeling the energetic charge, the somatic sensation, of a new incoming negative emotion" neutralizes it, and prevents the creation of new karma, ie prevents the storing of negative energy into the body-mind.

And for old currently stored negative energy, we can scan the body from head to toe (Vipassana) searching for negative emotions, feel them fully, and dissolve them. Thereby releasing trapped consciousness. Thereby cleaning house, so to speak. Buddha cleaned the house of a thousand lifetimes, just before he became "lighter", I mean, "Enlightened."

I got off track again. But why I need to know specifically, is if I deliberately, and consciously "feel fully" the negative charge of a negative emotion as it is happening, will it still manifest and attract negativity? Or, does it still attract negativity, but in a diminishing fashion according to how fast I can disssolve it?

Quantum | Fri, 01/01/2010 - 04:04
Gilana's picture

Here's all I know

I wasn't that poster, but I'll tell you what I know. (By the way, Happy New Year!!)

First, feeling the emotion. My master says, "It's just energy." Every emotion is powered by the same thing, just like every car is powered by gas (not only gas anymore, bu tyou get the drife.) It's all energy until it goes through the filter of our emotions, then it becomes anger, fear, happiness, etc. All just energy going through the prism. So just watching it seems to be the right response. Or if you are in a playful mood, try changing it to happiness, giddiness, gratitude (I made this part up, but it seems right.) That rage probably won't let you change it so the best you can do is watch it like it was a team of horses until it dissipates.

Secondly, meditation is the magnet. What are your thoughts about after the anger subsides? Can you willfully change your thought patterns, because it's the meditation that draws things to you, not the momentary erruptions---if you don't dwell on them. Or punch somebody out--that never helps, although it is tempting.

Lastly, on that note, my very master just recently in the sacred time of Darshan (getting together with the divine) discribed a huge, loud argument he had in a public place with a woman in her place of business! The difference in him and us (mostly) is that he considered whether or not to have the reaction first, then once he committed to being loud and angry, he enjoyed it fully. Got asked to appologize and said forget it and stormed away.

Consciousness is so underated. You don't have to be "nice-nice" all of the time...God's not. You should just be conscious about what you are doing.

It will be interesting to see if other people have comments.

Gilana | Fri, 01/01/2010 - 09:12
Quantum's picture

Thank for the material for this chapter. Best to you.

Happy Two Thousand Ten!

Thank you for your reply.

Your response gave me some clarity that I can work with in my approach to how I deal with future negative rage, frustration, anger, etc.

We learn when we teach, specially when we try to simplify complex ideas for 5 year old children so they can understand and apply them in a practical way. I’m teaching my 5 year old son Zen Archery (albeit on Wii….lol. But hey he’s starting to hit bullseyes, where mostly he hit the grass. I get 6 in a row by the way. Last night eleven. This morning another six. And so on. “Use the ‘Force’, Luke! Use the ‘Force’”. LOL, silly, eh? But don’t knock it till you try it. I bet Lucas picked up “The Force” stuff from Zen, after all, I think Light Saber battles were inspired by Samurai and Kendo.)

Wow..off track again. My linear rational mind must be taking a 15 minutebreak and allowing Divine Mother to speak through this organic incarnation called the Human Body and these fingers typing on this keyboard.. Let’s let the fingers continue typing and see what Divine Mother has to say….or as you suggested let’s see how Divine Mother’s wisdom comes across through the filter of my mind-emotion “Prism.”

“It's just energy. Every emotion is powered by the same thing… until it goes through the filter of our emotions, then it becomes anger, fear, happiness, etc. All just energy going through the prism…..That rage probably won't let you change it so the best you can do is watch it like it was a team of horses until it dissipates.”

I agree. Anger, without the memory, without the story, associated with it, is just a somatic sensation. Per Tolle, going into the somatic sensation, to feel it fully, dissolves it. “Full attentions, means full acceptance, means surrender.” -Power of Now

I don’t know about “changing” emotions, though. Because for me that’s utilizing the mind and the ego. My goal is to get the mind and ego out of the way…and let a higher dimension of consciousness (the same that feeds birds in the air, and clothes lilies of the field, and knocks off 11 straight bullseyes in a row, albeit a la Wii console) to flow unimpeded. Observation, watching, witnessing, seems to break the identification with the mind. And causes a separation from our mind and thoughts. What your post is telling me is that while the mind/ego can have negative emotions running them it/them, so long as we consciously, will full awareness, “observe” the emotions, we become detached from them while they are happening, and they dissipate rather than be repressed and stored and karmaically influence future experiece, or continue to simmer and mix with similar repressed negative emotions and karmaically influence current experience.

“It's the meditation that draws things to you…”

To me this means it is pre-existing subconscious feelings (various unprocessed emotions stored in the body-mind organism) that draw things to us…specially when triggered by a current similar emotion. (This is the key I was looking for!!!)

“, not the momentary erruptions---if you don't dwell on them.”

I disagree and agree, depending on how you grammatically expressed it. I disagree because my momentary eruptions draw bad things. They always have, they still do, and I hope I can stop it from happening in the future by practicing the concepts on these last two posts. (Yeah..time bound.)

I agree in the sense that if I stop dwelling on that imbecile nearly clipping me in theWal-Mart parking lot, I will “turn off the faucet” so to speak and stop fueling the negative emotion, which links up with pre-existing negative emotions currently stored in my body-mind thereby attracting bad situations.

I experience subtlety coming into play here. “Feeling fully” the somatic sensation of a negative brings “full attention, full acceptance, and surrender” to the negative emotion, in a detached, dis-identified way, and dissolves it. On the other hand, “dwelling on it” without awareness is identification with it, which continues to fuel it. Very tricky stuff, very subtle difference, they never explained properly in Christian sermons. All they express is a general statement of “Forgive”, without explaining the mechanics of how to “observe with detached awareness.” Therein lies an “incompleteness” for in Christianity.

“…he considered whether or not to have the reaction first, then once he committed to being loud and angry, he enjoyed it fully.”

He sounds like a conscious and aware being to me. Not someone who is identified with and lost in his anger. He knows and is aware that he is angry, and part of him is laughing about it all the while….and he can choose to stop when he wants, because he is outbursting on purpose, rather than “possessed” and overcome by it.

“Consciousness is so underated.”

Excellent point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for pointing that out to me. I may have reached that same conclusion eventually, but probably not for another several months from now, because my priority right now is how to deal with future as well as with currently buried and hidden negative emotions. You saved me some clock time.

“You don't have to be "nice-nice" all of the time.”

I stopped going to Church. In practice, I simply follow the Golden Rule. Simple as that. I treat people the way I want to be treated. Pretty much sums up experience in the material level.

Spiritually…I meditate. During this morning’s meditation, it was as though Divine Mother was nursing me, like an infant nursing from his mother. Revealing and giving insight after insight after insight….and feeding my intuition…and on and on and on….Then I suddenly “lost the connection.” And for once I finally understood what I’ve read about how the search for happiness is an attempt to fill the emptiness that comes from separation from ‘God.” Then…surprisingly..the connection returned….and I basked within it again, and nursed again from Divine Mother. (By the way, this is the very first day in my life I ever used the term “Divine Mother.” And I am using it meaningfully.) Somehow, during that ‘stillness’, or ‘bliss’, or ‘inner quiet’, or ‘experience’, etc, a part of me remained consciously aware enough to wonder about why when an infant in a crib inadvertently cover’s it’s face with a baby blanket, why does Diving Mother not remove that blanket from the infant’s face so that the infant can again gaze upon the mother’s face? The thought came, that Divine Mother wants the infant to learn to remove the blanket at will, on it’s own. It further dawned on me, that divine mother is an incarnation within the infant. Part of the game is a journey of “Re-Discovery.”

And the purpose behind the game, the dance and play, Lila, in the first place? I don’t know yet. My first current priority is how to engage, neutralize, render harmless incoming negative emotions because of the negative experiences they have caused for me in the past. And two to clean out pre-existing negative energy emotions already stored in my body-mind vehicle so that they will no longer be there to karmaically influence further behavior, reactions, and events.

“...God's not [always nice].”

That’s a deep one. I see it as similar to Gravity. If you let go, you fall. No use blaming gravity.

“You should just be conscious about what you are doing.”

Amen! and alleluiah!

Happy New Year.

Quantum | Fri, 01/01/2010 - 21:07
Gilana's picture

A lot

Wow! You seem to have gleaned a lot from my simple comments and from your meditation.

I like your empahsis on watching and being present. My master will sometimes add, notice. Just accepting that you have a quick temper and noticing how hot it gets and really accepting it that information, really seeing yourself in it will begin to change the pattern of it. Full consciousness of something changes the nature of it by definition since it is no longer subconscious in any way.

It seems that that is the most we can do, then something else can take over.

"And the purpose behind the game, the dance and play, Lila, in the first place?"

My master says you will never know, no body ever has or ever will. If the answer was given, you would somehow explode. Humans are not meant to hold that answer. If there is one.

You said, "My first current priority is how to engage, neutralize, render harmless incoming negative emotions because of the negative experiences they have caused for me in the past. And two to clean out pre-existing negative energy emotions already stored in my body-mind vehicle so that they will no longer be there to karmaically influence further behavior, reactions, and events."

Okaaayyyy.... but don't forget we as humans don't know which is positive and which is negative. What if you turn off the water and find out that it was on to put out a fire? This reminds me: BE CAREFUL WITH JUDGEMENTS, CHEYLAH!

I sometimes forget that all thought (especially answers that I come up with - you know "figuring it out")is limited by itself and can't always work, whereas being present and watching what is alive and ever changing...and updating won't limit me and will keep me in tune with what is true now.

One of my favorite authors, Father Andrew Greeley says that, "God is a 16-year old girl." I get that you have to watch it closely and there is no telling what will happen next.

I love the Wii Fi archery...you two can become masters.

Thank you so much for this conversation...I am learning so much. It's a brilliant way to revisit the wisdom my Guru has given.

Gilana | Sat, 01/02/2010 - 06:24
Quantum's picture

“Full consciousness of

“Full consciousness of something changes the nature of it by definition since it is no longer subconscious in any way…It seems that that is the most we can do, then something else can take over.”

Brilliant summary. ‘Must remember it and practice it.

“…we as humans don't know which is positive and which is negative.”

This has the potential to become complex and philosophical like some type of Socratic discourse. But, to keep it simple and self centered, negative emotions for me are anger, hatred, vile emotions. Energy that seems to emanate from me when I experience, them, and they seem to draw out the worst in people and situations and as a result I end up feeling , well, worse and in a space I would prefer not to be in--as opposed to feeling light, carefree, joyful, and happy, and in a space I enjoy being in.

“…being present and watching what is alive and ever changing...and updating won't limit me and will keep me in tune with what is true now.”

Very good practice, I would say.

Thanks for the dialogue also. Now that it has been given a bone, my noisy mind has been appeased, and it should be quiet and stay out of the way for a while, so that there isn’t so much mental noise and momentum to have to deal with during meditations.

Namaste.

Quantum | Sat, 01/02/2010 - 08:57
Quantum's picture

One more on awareness and emotion

"The bottom line with emotion on a tennis court: If you do not recognize it and find a way of releasing it, the unexpressed energy is going to turn against you and eat you alive, sucking your vitality, making you collapse."
-Zennis by Pete Spang, pg 87.

Quantum | Fri, 01/01/2010 - 23:15