Living in the present means living in the myth

santthosh kumaar's picture



No votes yet
Toco Toucan.jpg

Living in the present means living in the myth and experiencing the myth as reality. The past, present and future are based on the ego, which is the false self within the false experience. There is neither past nor present, nor future in reality. Thus the seeker of truth has to realize the fact that the past, present and future is part and parcel of the illusion, which comes and goes as waking or dream. The one which is aware of the coming and going of the three states is apart and eternal. Thus, it is necessary to overcome the myth that we must live in the present.

Living in the past and living in the present and living in future means living in duality. Duality is mere illusion on the standpoint of the true self, which is the soul.
There is a necessary to understand what mind is, and then only it is possible to assimilate the self-knowledge. If one limits the mind to the physical entity, then he will remain believing in the idea that mind is bundle of thoughts. This mind is bundle of thoughts idea keeps one in the grip of duality and makes one experience duality as reality.

The thoughts are part of the myth. The thoughts, memory and experience have no relevance in pursuit of truth, because the individuality itself is myth. Thus, individual experiences’ happening within the waking is as real as dream. The waking is parallel dream and dream is parallel waking experience.

Thus, the truth is not based on individuality but it is based on the totality of the three states, which appear and disappear in succession. Thus the intellectuality, which is based on the physicality, will yield only the understanding based on the ego, which is the false self. The non-dual wisdom will not dawn by studying the scriptures, or intellectual arguments but it will dawn only when indulges in deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the base of the true self.

The true self is not the ego. Basing one-self on the ego and trying to understand and assimilate the self-knowledge is impossibility. The true self is the soul, which is within the three states but it is apart from the three states. It is within the three states as their formless substance and it is apart from the three states as their formless witness. It is apart because it is not an entity or identity within the three states. This formless witness of the three states has to be grasped mentally by constant reflecting on the subject, which is formless soul and realize the fact that the true “Self” is not an individual. Thus, it is necessary to rectify the seeking base from form to formless to understand, assimilate and realize the non-dual truth.



joejo's picture

Advaita

I agree with you and have read other posts by you and all are exceptionally clear and a true statement of adviata. I would like to ask you a question just to elucidate the point and not necessarily to show or find fault with what you say.

Question. Who says that all this is Maya or illusion or perceives it or understands it as such . My question is which is the faculty, is it the witness or Atman or something else?

joejo | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 04:57
santthosh kumaar's picture

Re: Advaita

Santthosh
There is no second thing exists other then Ataman/Soul/Spirit. We are discussing and trying to understand, assimilate and realize the truth within the myth. Until we find the source of the myth, we will not be able to assimilate self-knowledge.

When the experience of diversity is created out the soul, which is in the form of spirit or consciousness then no second thing exists other then the soul, which is the true self. On the standpoint of the true self /soul the experience of diversity [waking/dream] is mere illusion.

It is erroneous to say the man and his experience of the world as illusion on the base of ego/physical self, because man and his experience of the world is reality on the base of the ego. Only when one becomes mentally aware of the formless substance and witness of the three states, then only one becomes aware of the existence of the formless faculty, which is the formless source of the myth[three states] from where it rises and subsides.

Dream becomes unreal when waking takes place. Similarly the waking becomes unreal when one becomes aware of the fact that, the ego is not the self, but the soul is the true self.

santthosh kumaar | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 05:25
joejo's picture

The Formless or Pure Mind

I have gone through your reply but it does not answer my question in a direct and comprehensive way. I propose to put forward certain points for your kind consideration.

In our scriptures (Advitic) two kinds of mind are spoken of one of which is the mind as bundle of thoughts or sanskars ( impressions) and the other being formless and pure. It is for this reason that for other than the Uttam Adhikari ( most Qualified seeker), meditation on formless Brahmn is spoken of as a means of purification and realisation.

Now comming to the subject of Realisation. Ramana Maharshi said and its obvious too, that all knowledge is a form of Vritti of thought. Threfore as far as this realisation goes this being aware etc etc is knowledge. The supreme witness is not the experiencer and does not have any knowledge. The mind dissolves for a very very few, the rarest of the rare and they are known as Brahmn Varishth. The others are , Brahmn Vid,Brahmn Vid Var, Brahmn Variya. The state of there knowledge (Mind) is Sadkhyati ( realisation of truth), Asanshakti ( non attachment), Asadkhyati ( non perception of objects) and Tyrgaya ( indescribable).

I have merely stated the above to point out that to talk of no mind theory does not state the facts as they exist for the vast majority of even the realised sages what to talk of us ordinary mortals. In order to avoid deception we must be fully grounded in where we are instead of what should be which is a concept anyway.

Finally what about the Heart. If our Advaitic (non-dual) knowledge does not lead to flowering of the Heart be sure its a Deception.

joejo | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 06:44
santthosh kumaar's picture

Re:The Formless or Pure Mind

Santthosh
It is better not to indulge in scriptures. There is no need of scriptures in pursuit of truth. The mind means duality. When the mind is there duality is there. Duality appears and disappears as waking or dream. When there is no mind then it is non duality. Therefore, deeper understanding is necessary in pursuit of truth. The nature of the true self is formless and nondual. Since, mind means duality thus it is not the nature of the true self, which is the soul, hence mind is impure. So to get rid of this impure [duality] one has to realize the duality is created, sustained and finally dissolves as soul or spirit. Thus, the conditioning [sanskars / impressions] based on the ego has to be dropped to realize the ever pure self or Ataman. Thus there is a need to rectify the seeking base from form to formless in order to understand and assimilate the self-knowledge.
Dual and non dual is state of the self not some philosophy or theory. When the self is in illusion it is mind/’I’/ duality, and when the self is in its formless nondual nature it is Ataman/non-duality.
Realization of truth, not just understanding, truly blows up the ignorance which is vital for acquiring the non dual wisdom.
The point is that most of us get stuck in the intellectual understanding, in reciting theoretical mantras and do not move on to experiential realization. Because it is convenient to imagine as one need not inquire and reason, on the true base, which is very difficult and boring. This is a self deception, this is why people who does not want o inquire and reason on the true base get nowhere.
Seeker has to rely on totality of experience by coordinating the three states, waking dream and deep sleep. All other spiritual paths based on the individual apart from the world. But they do not consider of the fact that man and world exist within the waking. Man and his experience of the world is reality within the waking experience. But the waking experience is myth. The witness of the three states is apart and unaffected and nothing to with the myth which appears and disappears as waking and dream. Therefore, the Ataman alone is real and all else is illusion.

Even in waking experience one is not aware of the formless witness of the three states. One has to become aware of the fact that man and world are within the waking/ dream. Man perceives the world within the waking/dream. The individual and the world exist within the waking/dream. The soul/Ataman is the formless substance and witness of the three states.
Ataman the formless substance and witness of the three states itself is alone permanent, the three states [seen] are opposed to it that is transient – such a settled conviction is truly known as discrimination.
Turning away the focus of attention completely from the three states to the formless substance and witness of the three states with lots of patient endurance will help the seeking mind to establish in the Ataman the true self.
What is ‘I’? How these three states are created? Who is its creator? Of what material is these three states are made? This is the way of that inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the true base.
Three states are produced by ignorance, and dissolves in the wake of self-Knowledge. Ataman is the substance and witness and the true self.
Where there is mind there is form. Where there is no mind there is no form.

santthosh kumaar | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 07:22
joejo's picture

"It is better not to indulge

"It is better not to indulge in scriptures. There is no need of scriptures in pursuit of truth. "

While I agree that scriptures and hair splitting is not the way to truth but if we claim that we follow Advaita and then question the very same scriptures it seems incongruous. We cannot take what we like and discard what we don't. Besides they are good records to validate our experience should we be deluded.

"Thus, the conditioning [sanskars / impressions] based on the ego has to be dropped to realize the ever pure self or Ataman."

This is precisely the question. What is one to do to arrive at this. Don't tell me deeper understanding because these are words. Keeping this in mind I had written the Blog How to change Fundamentally

http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/how-change-fundamentally

and Sadhana or Spiritual Practice.

http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/sadhana-or-spiritual-practice

joejo | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 08:29
santthosh kumaar's picture

Re: "It is better not to indulge

Santthosh
Ego cannot be dropped until and unless one realizes what is mind. Ego, body and the world appear together and disappear together. When the mind is there then the ego, body and the world are there. It is not the person, who is the false entity, within the false experience has to drop the falsehood. Only non-dual wisdom frees one from experiencing the duality as reality.

It is impossible to drop the ego with the ego. The ego is the physical entity which perceives the world within the waking or dream. The true self pervades in everything and everywhere in the world, which exists in the waking or dream as their formless substance and witness.

The true self/soul is not an entity or identity within the waking or dream. Thus basing our understanding on the false self will lead us towards falsehood or hallucination. Until we mentally grasp the formless witness of the three states and base our understanding on the true self, it is impossible to assimilate the self-knowledge.

Only when the formless witness is grasped then only it is possible to realize the fact that the true self is the soul and drop the mirage [three states] mentally. Whatever prevails without the three states is the substance and witness of the three states. The self /soul remain with or without the waking/dream. When it is without the waking/dream we call it deep sleep or death. Deep sleep is not the self but the formless knower of the deep sleep is the true self.
Through, physical efforts like yoga, virtues and mediation it is not possible to assimilate the truth. It is mental effort through deeper understanding through inquiry, analysis and reasoning on the base of true self ,one becomes aware the whole universe[diversity/duality] including all it contents are mere illusion created out of spirit/soul. Thus there is no second thing exists other then the spirit/soul. Thus, the man and his experience of the world [waking] are mere mirage. The dream becomes unreal when waking takes place and waking becomes unreal when the wisdom dawns.
The wisdom does not dawn by practices based on the ego. One has to realize the fact that the ego is not the self, thus whatever is seen, known, believed, accumulated understanding and experienced on the base of ego is bound to be false. Thus, it is necessary to learn to view and judge and conclude the understanding on the formless witness/true self in order to understand and assimilate the self-knowledge.
Seeker on his own has to verify the validity of every claim through deeper inquiry, analysis and reasoning and accept only un-contradictable truth.

santthosh kumaar | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 09:46