If I only knew...

sisi's picture

Average: 4.9 (12 votes)

If only I knew that it is a school.
But if I knew, it would not be a school anymore.

If only I knew that it is a dream.
If I knew, there would not be a dream anymore.

Phroggy's picture

Why not?

I'm not sure I understand. All the while I went to school, I knew it was a school, and yet it was still a school. When I have lucid dreams at night, I know they are dreams, and yet there is still a dream. Any 'Awakened' being will tell you they know life is a dream, and yet life goes on, only now it is all a joy, a wonder, a source of deep gratitude.


Phroggy | Wed, 08/20/2008 - 00:01
sisi's picture

Knowledge introduces motives

"Any 'Awakened' being will tell you..." - they will tell you, it's not your knowledge, it is your temporal belief and trust in them.

This is the difference between the school you went to when you were a child and the school of life which doesn't have a board of education. The fact that we use the same word for two things, does not mean the two things turn suddenly to be the same, beware from language.

The difference if you may, is that there are no boundaries to the school of life, no after school, no out of school to escape to or to wait for. Plus, you never know for sure that it is a school so you are always forced to take a risk, to make a decision, to choose.

If you knew it is a school, you would be doing the exams out of cold motive, out of desire to gain points. It would be a bargain with god. Acceptance would not be a real acceptance because you would know that it is just a game. All the horrifying essence of the acceptance would vanish, the school would vanish.

As to dreams, the reality dream will break into tiny pieces when you realize it is a dream. Something like when you watch a horror movie in a cinema and feels at some point as if you are inside the movie and suddenly you look right and left and realize with relief that you are in the cinema and that it is only a movie.

sisi | Wed, 08/20/2008 - 06:31
Phroggy's picture

It's not really a school, of

It's not really a school, of course. That's just a way of describing the experience of evolving through letting go of delusion. Nobody set it up that way and nobody is testing or grading you, you're just exploring your own boundaries because you want something more and something seems to be stopping you.

There really is no bargain with God. You ARE God. Acceptance is only genuine once you know it is a game. Prior to that is when all the bargaining happens, either with an imagined God or with imagined others. The goal is not to accept under duress, to surface through your impassioned suffering. You're free to do that if you like, but nobody is asking for that. If you can accept by realizing there is nothing to fear, this is more genuine.

Talk to someone who you trust has Awakened. Ask them if the dream breaks into pieces and becomes boring and pointless or vanishes or whatever that implies to you. Mooji said something in one of his recent Satsangs, with a huge grin on his face. "Sages have the most fun of anybody."


Phroggy | Wed, 08/20/2008 - 07:00
sisi's picture

Who said "boring and

Who said "boring and pointless"? Boring is from a perspective of desire for entertainment. pointless is from a perspective of point.

There is a stage in the path where the belief is taken from the believer in order to let him/her deepen his/her surrender without any other alternative to rely on. Unconditional surrender, unconditional acceptance that does not rely on any perspective, just surrender for the sake of surrender. It is called "the dark night of the soul".

sisi | Wed, 08/20/2008 - 09:41
solo's picture

A gun pointed to your head

A gun is pointed to your head at a dark alley. You are naturally terrified to your bones.

Then instantly you recall that you are an actor standing on the stage in front of the audiance in a theater play and it is a dummy gun. What a relief, no horror, now you can be brave and aggressive, "yeh, shoot me, shoot me, you lousy coward, yeh pull the trigger", you have nothing to lose.

But actually you were, of course, not that brave at all and there was no real test once you knew that all this was not real.

solo | Wed, 08/20/2008 - 10:52
Omkaradatta's picture

Life as dream...

"Any 'Awakened' being will tell you they know life is a dream, and yet life goes on, only now it is all a joy, a wonder, a source of deep gratitude."

Here and now is not a dream. 'There' is a dream, 'then' is a dream, 'when' is a dream.

P.S. the future will never arrive (has it ever?), so there's your answer to the whole futility thang (if it happens to sink in deeply enough).


Omkaradatta | Wed, 08/20/2008 - 23:23
Phroggy's picture

I have no questions about

I have no questions about the "futility thang". I hope you find your answers.

Phroggy | Thu, 08/21/2008 - 04:02
Omkaradatta's picture

Weren't you looking...

... for futility, or "the clarity of futility" (as you put it)? In other words, aren't you the self-professed spiritual seeker? And didn't I state clearly that I'm not seeking anything? In case not, I'll say it again: I'm not looking for anything.

Declaring publicly that one is seeking, don't be surprised if you get suggestions/comments about it here and there.


Omkaradatta | Thu, 08/21/2008 - 04:13
Phroggy's picture

One of us seems to have an

One of us seems to have an issue with futility, and it doesn't seem to be me. If you're good with it, then maybe there is no issue.
What may be more likely to draw suggestions/comments is to declare you are NOT seeking.

Phroggy | Thu, 08/21/2008 - 05:15
atlantis's picture

profit and loss

Right. It's like a naughty boy behaving appropriately when at home because he knows he is under the open eyes of his mother but when he goes outside he turns into a juvenile delinquent.

Not knowing that this is a school for sure assures that our behavior comes from sincere relevant motives of inner development and not out of profit/loss considerations.

atlantis | Mon, 01/12/2009 - 09:21
Tania's picture

school dream

The tension between the dream-ness of reality and the school-ness of reality yields the right conduct to apply: aloofness with no attachment.

Tania | Mon, 03/09/2009 - 10:57
Equilibs's picture


You know that you don't know...
that's the beginning of knowledge :)

Equilibs | Mon, 06/22/2009 - 09:13