How is your path going and is your ego in your way? (No Advice (Please) Just what are you experiencing?)

Gilana's picture



Average: 3.8 (4 votes)
Chicken and the Egg.jpg

This process is so unlike anything else I've been through...ego blockage, realization, more ego blockage, more realization, etc. It seems one's bigger than the next but it all leads to acceptance. And it's getting more practical as I go, less esoteric, more "what's up?" now...

For example it's gone from: realizing the nature of manifestation as seen in it's molecular form and the non-separateness and permiability of everything, to...

Accept that everything is God's will and to know that surrender is the only devotional response, to...

I don't want to let go of the control I get from not allowing other's to touch my heart to....

We are immersed in the flow of love; that's all we are in anyway, to...

I don't love myself enough to allow others touch my heart, to....

See how it's getting more specific? When you look at the path you are on, is that everybody's experience, or some, or not? AND each time I get something, I think, "Well this has changed everthing...I must have "the missing piece" this time!" Wrong. again. sigh. :)



Omkaradatta's picture

The goal...

From here, the journey is the goal. Which means no goals.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 03/19/2009 - 20:31
Phroggy's picture

~

Yeah, it all comes back home no matter how hard we try to keep the work 'out there'. It gets real and personal and pointed like a dagger. That's been the only 'real' work for me.

Somebody here asked us not to 'get personal' in our responses, which is ego's fear, that it will get caught with it's pants down. I said spirituality is radically personal, and it is so BECAUSE there is no person.

And so my advice to you (hehe) is not to fear advice. Am I other that You? Can I really hurt You? Am I not a reflection of you? If there is disturbance, was it caused by somebody else?

Phroggy | Thu, 03/19/2009 - 21:34
Omkaradatta's picture

Fearing advice

Don't fear advice, but don't take it either, unless it may be to 'look within' ;-).

You talk about personal stuff, Phil, but doesn't the personal actually imply that what 'works' for one person probably won't work at all for another? The personal is precisely what separates us, so where's the room for advice? Every person is alone with their personal likes and dislikes, personal preferences, personal hopes and fears, their personal dream.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 03/20/2009 - 02:08
Phroggy's picture

~

The idea that everybody is on their own path and has their own truth, etc is seriously overstatd by those who want nothing to do with the advice of others. You can probly infer from the title of this blog that advice is not seen as merely useless, but actually very much unwanted, dangerous, and the author doesn't know that an enlightened master might be willing to offer advice. Why? Because ego finds itself disturbed by this advice. Why? That's a question that could be worth it's weight in gold.

Yes, it's true that 94.625% of advice is total projection, but it would not be accurate to say it has nothing to do with the receiver of such advice. Is it not the perceiver talking to him/her self?

And then there's the other 5.375% of the peeps who are not projecting but actually discerning where this person is and what the current roadblock may look like. The details will differ widely and there are infinite paths to Truth but ego has a set of games that every adult (well 97.218% of em) on the planet has played, and as you've said yourself, from a conscious perspective, ego ain't hiding nuthin.

Phroggy | Fri, 03/20/2009 - 04:22
mayasurfer's picture

"my" path...

I don't mind advice, I really appreciate it and am thankful for it. But I don't like preaching. My path has been very rocky the last 12 months. First I lost a lot of money, next I was hit by a car and broke my leg and had to spend 6 months on crutches, next I had the shingles and for the last 2 months I'm in agony mentally with obsessive thoughts. I feel I have to go through all that pain ..it feels like a "seed" is planted and is now pulling me through my ego-blocks and burning/dropping off what I don't need any more on this journey towards freedom from this "ego" idea. The blogs and comments on this website are very much part of this unfolding.

mayasurfer | Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:12
Phroggy's picture

~

Wow, yeah, sounds like 'Truth at all cost' for you.
My advice to you would be to....um....you know....carry on. :)

Phroggy | Fri, 03/20/2009 - 18:00
Gilana's picture

Response to mayasurfer

With all that going on, can you say anything about the "seed"? How did that planting happen and what was the seed from?

I, too, have experienced the "pulling me through" mechanism, but it was my guru who is pulling me...is that what you are talking about? Or are you on your own?

I'm dealing with a life of strictness...not much in the way of comfort or love, so the bottom line has become finding the activity of love now applying to me.

I've seen how it works from strangers exchaging smiles on the street all the way down to the molecular activity (don't ask - mystical seeing), but I just can't seem to feel it directed toward me. Ego is involved in keeping it theoretical lest I get too happy or trust too much, I guess.

Gilana | Mon, 03/23/2009 - 14:12
mayasurfer's picture

find the ground

Hi Cheylah
the "seed" is a metaphor. My teacher Neeru always said "don't worry, the seed is planted..", you will get there eventually, everybody will get there. The seed is obviously not some thing that was planted, it is simply an encouragement that in time you will awaken.. slowly you awake as you shed and drop your delusionary belief that you are something special. You are nothing special, in truth you don't even exist. All that exists is the ground of Being which is...well, no words can describe it but it is the ground or essence out of which that belief that you exist emerges. And the world which you perceive opposite of you is nothing but your own creation. Creation and Perception are the same, as Phroggy said somewhere. You and the world are the same. When you look at this from the perspective of the ground as it sort of shines through in the Here and Now than you "awake" as the delusion that you and the world exist drops away... I have no idea what you mean by mystical seeing or molecular activity etc. Let go of all that, it's meaningless and pointless. Keep it simple. Let go of all those concepts and focus on the Here and Now. That is the "place" where you find the love you are seeking, nowhere else. And don't be too strict on yourself, allow yourself to flow, to dance, to be available, to surrender to the Here and Now.

mayasurfer | Wed, 03/25/2009 - 09:29
Omkaradatta's picture

So what's the advice?

So what's the advice then? "Turn within". Look at your own ego games. What other advice is there to give?

We can talk from a 'place' of clarity, of course, but that isn't giving advice.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 03/21/2009 - 00:08
Phroggy's picture

~

Any advice, and I'm not saying it's necessary or necessarilly appropriate, would come out of one's intuitive insight as to where the next roadblock is likely to be. Lots of gurus do this when they are able to see the trap one is approaching or in, which is why what is said to one student many not be appropriate for another, or for general consumption.

It's not just woo woo gurus who can have such insight, and there are all sorts of traps and confusion that might be pointed to. I was on a forum for years where two of us did just that; offered guidance to seekers who were voluntarilly there to work. It would take me maybe half a dozen posts or so to intuitively connect so that I could clearly see where they are and help them gain some clarity.

That whole scenario required a lot of trust and willingness to work through resistance with folks and I'm out of that business now, but it was at times an extremely effective process.

Phroggy | Sat, 03/21/2009 - 00:24
madan_gautam's picture

Yes

>>>That whole scenario required a lot of trust and willingness to work through resistance with folks and I'm out of that business now, but it was at times an extremely effective process.
++++++++++++++++++++
The role of teacher/mentor Guru is really a very tedious job as you need much more energy and needs to be ready for even criticism.
But if one is capable then I would suggest to keep it on to guide others without any hope of positive results.
OM

madan_gautam | Sat, 03/21/2009 - 07:32
Phroggy's picture

~

Yeah, even in an accepting, supportive environment, there was frequent anger and usually it was worked through. Perhaps that's where I learned to be blunt since the love-n-light approach failed quite consistently. Real ego work can get very messy because it strips us naked and kicks away our crutches and erases our self definitions and fantasies. For that reason, ego work is more often done in private, but it can be a very long road, and far too often it's not done at all.

I never positioned myself as a teacher, but just a student, and my work took me beyond 'ego issues', so I am no longer involved. The ego work continues on some more subtle levels, but not the unconsciousness which that group still focuses on.

Phroggy | Sat, 03/21/2009 - 17:51
madan_gautam's picture

So I am no longer involved

Namaste,
But I do not find any reason for your non involvement.
This shows you choose a simpler path,and drifted from the responsibility,which I think you should not.
If some one is of your taste and in search of Truth,then you should guide him/her and moreover this world needs good one to guide the seekers,the path may be differ.
My request to you,for rethinking on this issue again.
When one starts delivering fruits,then others should also enjoy them,otherwise there is no use of delivering fruits.
OM

madan_gautam | Sun, 03/22/2009 - 04:45
Phroggy's picture

~

Well, I appreciate your perspective, but my responsibility is to my own development. There are teachers available for whoever is willing to learn. The difficulty in positioning oneself as a teacher is that there is a tendency to cease being a student and the teaching becomes locked in place.

I was helping folks to uncover 'ego issues' and bring them to the light of day where they quite naturally dissolve, and yet ego is an illusion and has no reality, and so the 'issues' likewise have no reality. It was no longer a 'fruitful' focus for my own work. I was sorry to leave and it was very difficult. I had become attached to the people and the role. I surrendered to my greater wisdom and accepted the impermanence of the situation and moved on. I did not choose a simpler path but rather a more challenging one.

Phroggy | Sun, 03/22/2009 - 18:02
madan_gautam's picture

Agreed

I agree with your points but a tree does not stop growing even when he starts giving fruits.
So one can even continue his/her growth even with guiding others.
The most important point to learn is not to attach with them & also continue self growth.
By teaching one remains energetic and even learn new things from them.
OM

madan_gautam | Mon, 03/23/2009 - 04:30
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, the pendulum swing of this discussion has come to rest in the middle, which is pleasant for a change. Hehe.

I am aware that teaching happens. My resonance as student is available for others to resonate with as well. I see it happen but there is no need for me to cause it or to claim it.

Phroggy | Wed, 03/25/2009 - 09:52
Omkaradatta's picture

Guidance

"I was on a forum for years where two of us did just that; offered guidance to seekers who were voluntarilly there to work."

Must have been that feller who's name starts with "F", who "accosted me" several times on Facebook with my supposed 'dilemma' ;-). Seems here to be a real tripping point for habitual advice-givers... getting trapped in a 'role' that assumes everyone is looking for advice.

From here, this is a major potential down-side to any 'guru' role... it's a sort of co-dependence, loss of freedom on the guru's part. Even the 'greats' like Nisargadatta seem to have been affected a little, and some (like Adi Da) were affected a *lot*.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 03/21/2009 - 19:12
Phroggy's picture

~

A degree of wisdom is necessary, or it can all go horribly wrong very quickly.

Phroggy | Sat, 03/21/2009 - 19:13
Gilana's picture

Looking for you

I actually started this conversation in an attempt to see what the people here are going through--not so much in talking "about" the process as the actual process.

I find people's "dilemas" (to use somebody's word) and susequent understadings quite illuminating in my own...I really would like to hear how people are doing, what they are facing, and how they are facing it, with what help, or lack thereof, perceived or "real"...

Is there some rule here about getting too personal? (thought I saw someone talk about that...) Maybe I'm out of line...?

Gilana | Mon, 03/23/2009 - 13:56
Phroggy's picture

~

Yeah, I've found that ego is always in the way and so it's really about nothing else. For me it began with self acceptance, then I worked on becoming fully conscious; eliminating unconscious motives, projections, denial, then the work moved into questioning the assumed reality of the self and it's various attachments. What has slowly occurred is a loss of interest in this fictitious self, and along with that, a reduction in the intensity of the clinging as well as the seeking. Almost all of what people call seeking is now seen as a game designed to avoid the very thing the seeker pretends to be seeking. And yes, surrender is where it ends, over and over. There's nowhere else for it to go.

Phroggy | Wed, 03/25/2009 - 10:15
Gilana's picture

Surrender

What is surrender to you?

Gilana | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 15:13
Quantum's picture

Phil and Tim

I think you guys knew each other in a previous lifetime, somewhere, say perhaps in ancient Greece, debating philosophy or whatever, with Socrates and that lot.

Cheyla, I started taking a formal meditation class some months ago, but I quit because I was fed up with too much mind, and it just became too ambiguous silly...(according to my mind). But I have meditated on and off over the past decades.

Watching "The Secret" two years ago triggered the past two years of reading. Curiosity mostly.

Now I meditate, using my own personal favorites techniques, whatever the flavor of the week may be. And I meditate regularly because I enjoy it.

My goal, yes goal, in all this is to detach myself from my emotions. I don't care about the thoughts, they don't bother me. It is my emotions that result from the thoughts that I want to become consciously aware of and distance myself from. So that I can enjoy whatever it is I am doing, unhindered by the pain of negative sensations from worry, anxiety, stress, fear, whatever.

Coincidenses: seem to be happening more frequently when I meditate regularly. I promised my mind I would start keeping a journal of them. But haven't lived up to that promise yet.

Clarity: I have moments when I understand Jesus. I should journals those insights as well.

Don't know what to call: There are brief moments, simple moments, say washing hands, holding a cup under a faucet, or holding open a door, where suddently I notice I feel good, and I think, "Wow, this feels good." Of course I immediately compare it to that feeling I used to have as a devout Catholic back in the years when I used to be very close to God and I often felt His Presense all around me. Maybe it's the same, but this time no personal God. Hmmmm....

In the meantime, I enjoy sitting with my eyes closed whenever, and for however long I want and can, because it's nice and because that's what I want and that's what we (me,myself, and I) all want.

And some day, pehaprs in the not to distant future, perhaps tomorrow afternoon, when I can fidn the time, I may go back and read through my Bible again. But this time sans the garbage of guilt.

Namaste.

Quantum | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 06:11
Omkaradatta's picture

Phil & Tim...

... sitting in a tree... T-A-L-K-I-N-G.

first comes gab, then comes spoutage,

Then comes more talk, going on an outage :-p.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 07:58
Quantum's picture

True--Monkey Chatter

And I didn't even realize I was doing it too. But it was fun and therapeutic.

Thank for herding me back.

I think it's time for me to start putting my gab into a journal...keep it private. Because, what sounds so deep when I write it, sounds like crap the next morning.

:)
My new slant on "This too shall Pass":

"This too will sound like crap in the morning."

Quantum | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 17:25
Gilana's picture

Meditation

I stumble then I rise, too. I had one of those close to God experiences. I think humans must be programed to compare. I know that last sentence was all mind, but I figure I must honor mind, too. Must be God's will if it is there. I'm attempting to understand where "mind" and it's courterpoint "emotions" correct spot is in awareness.

I'm so grateful you and others have shared what you can with me. Words make it difficult, but I can feel your heart a little. Thank you.

Gilana | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 15:22
Quantum's picture

Mind and Emotions

Cheyla, You seem to know God, or love God. To me, that's a good thing. I noticed it to be healthy (sans the garbage of guilt and "sin", of cource).

Your sentence, "I'm attempting to understand where "mind" and it's courterpoint "emotions" correct spot is in awareness" intrigues me very much because I have been wondering about for a long time too.

My understanding/experience of how thoughts and emotions they relate is that mental thoughts cause emotions. My emotions have two components, the mental thought ("that guy cut me off!", "stop creaming!" "Don't do that!" "Don't break that!" "Turn it down!"), and the physical sensation (i.e. high blood pressure, sweaty palms, sweating, heart palpitations, head ache, nausea, rise in body temperature, tightness in chest, cold feet, sick feeling in the stomach, clenching fist, excess excess as in urge to hit or break something). If I ignore my thoughts they seem to go away. If I ignore my emotions they seem to get repressed, and the physical component of them (stress) get stored in my muscles, and they do physical damage and I get a headache, sore back, sore muscles, a pain in the ass, etc. Massage seems to release "toxins/energy/stress" from the muscles. My repressed (now subconscious) negative emotions also have been for as long as I can remember attracting negative events, cirstances and people.

For preexisting emotions, when I meditate, I close my eyes, sometimes look for an emotion, strong ones are easier to notice, and I focus my attention on the physical component of the mention, usually they feel like a tightness in my chest, or general upper frontal torso area, or shoulder area below the neck. With sustained undistracted focus and attention on the physical senstation which usually feels like a heaviness, or tightness, or "jaged edged vibration", the feeling dissolves within 2 minutes, and an energy is released that feels something like the feeling you get when you yawn. Then I feel more "light."

THen I look for another emotion. If I can't find any, I simply meditate quietly and enjoy the experience.

With new incoming negative emotions...wow.. this one I'm working on how to handle them. There has to be aless painful way than just "Keeping it in." Because that really hurts when you have an urge to be angry and you just "hold it in." Whoa... not healthy.

I don't know what awareness is. And I don't really care anymore at this point. I just meditate and do that above with emotions.

Quantum | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 18:16
Gilana's picture

Mind and Emotions

Now I know at least one thing about you...you are the mother of small or medium size (could be teen-agers like mine)children. :)

Osho says: Concentrate completely on the emotion and it has to dissolve. In the moment that seems to be a tall order (and not kill something, inadvertantly!) But that seems to be what you are doing in meditation...am I right? Is there a way we can do it and keep "driving"?

All I know so far about awareness is that it is: watching something that is alive. It seems to be the same thing as when you are watching a newborn to see what it does. Then some people can expand it out to inlcude more and more. I can do it for a little while, but not when I want to and not for long periods of time, and especially not when I have opinions.

One other thing that Osho says that is magical is that the way he knows what it real and what isn't is to concentrate on it in meditation. Truth grows, nonsence dissolves. Truth grows, hate dissolves. Cool if it works!

(PS the reason I keep quoting Osho is he's the only one I've ever read for more than a minute. His disciple is my teacher.)

Gilana | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 20:07
Quantum's picture

Mined and emotions

Hello Cheyla,

Close, I am the father of a toddler. My beloved baby boy. My clone. I think children naturally excel in the fine art of making parents angry.

"Osho says: Concentrate completely on the emotion and it has to dissolve. In the moment that seems to be a tall order (and not kill something, inadvertantly!) But that seems to be what you are doing in meditation...am I right?"

I do not know Osho, but it sounds exactly like what I am doing. To be more precise, I concentrate on the sensation, the physical component, feeling in the body, of the emotion, and so long as I can sustain and keep my focus on it, it dissolves. And the trapped energy that is released is transmuted back into Presence, Consciousness. It feels like the sensation you get inside when you yawn. This transmuation, according to Tolle, is the essence of Alchemy, transmuting base metal (negative emotions) into gold, Consciousness/presence/higher dimension of awareness/Being.

I quote Tolle because he resonates with me. And I understand the New Testament more clearly after reading him. (Granted some parts of the New Testament are still "cryptic".)

"Is there a way we can do it and keep "driving"?

Yes. The same way you keep driving now with your attention scattered across millions of thoughts. What is one thought (feeling the inner body) vs the usual millions of random thoughts?

Quantum | Fri, 09/18/2009 - 20:58
Gilana's picture

Mind and Emotions

Hi Quantum,

I love Eckart Tolle (watched his video on Oprah!) and it seems that he has brought something to you that you can use. Good explanation of the process.

Congratulations on the toddler..they are amazing creatures.

Gilana | Sat, 09/19/2009 - 01:29
Quantum's picture

What I face

"...I really would like to hear how people are doing, what they are facing, and how they are facing it, with what help, or lack thereof..."

Hi Cheyla, I want to know more of what others face too. Hopefully there will be more sharings.

Given that BEING wants nothing, it just "IS", here is what my mind and ego have to say since my last posts:

No matter how I look at it, I am my mind. If I watch my thoughts, it is my mind watching my thoughts. If I watch my mind watching my thoughts, it is my mind watching my mind watching my thoughts. And if I keep moving back a step it becomes my mind watching my mind waching my....mind watching my thoughts. Like a mirror held in front of a mirror. Endless. Even knowing I am not my mind, is my mind doing the knowing. Even having a glimpse of what Omkaradatta says is just my mind having that glimpse. Even if I understand him, it is my mind that understanding him. So, I have resigned myself to just occupy my mind with just one thing. As when Jesus told Martha that she was concerned with too many things, and only one thing was necessary. So, ooo---kaaayy...I make that one thing usually my breath. Or, sometimes the feel of each footstep as I walk down the hall, or in the mall. Sometimes the feel of the keyboard on my fingertips as I type this. Doesn't matter what. As long as my mind is occupied with only ONE thing. Instead of one hundred million thoughts and emotions, of which any one can take full possession of my true Higher Self. My mind intellectually knows about the "Higher Self", but my HIgher Self, so utterly possesed by and identified with the mind, has a hard time experiencing ITSELF.

So, I occupy my multitasking, possessing, mind with that one chosen thing, hoping that along the way, my mind might actually stop making noise, and I might feel that peace that one enjoys sitting at a table by the window in a coffee shop on a rainy day watching the world go by when one is momentarily free from stress.

Sometimes this "peace" comes of it's own accord without any prompting. But I do the above because I am greedy for more of it, and I want to facilitate more of it.

In summary, where I am lately, is I have resigned myself to just occupy my mind with just one thing. Like giving a noisy dog a bone to chew on to pacify it a little so I can enjoy a show I'm watching on TV. Something like that.

And yes, I still practice my 15 minute morning meditations. I do breath--inner body awareness. Because it feels good. Something like, sitting in a hot tub. It feels good and it is relaxing.

And underneath it all, I am a cafeteria Catholic. The Mysticism so natural and inherent --for me-- in that religion is what I cherish most about it. I was born with that and will always have that. It's like having been born with God, but now am peeling away the mind made maskings of GOD. While always, the "image" I have of God remains always a great help...though one who is not close to God may well call it a crutch. Bhakti yoga seems easier for me than Jnana Yoga, if I understand those terms correctly.

Quantum | Wed, 10/28/2009 - 05:23
Gilana's picture

What We Face

My mind is a pain, too. But I found what you said about "...sitting in a hot tub. It feels good and it is relaxing," is wisdom rather than mind. My master says mind in the servant, not the master. I find when I feel God instead of think God, I get closer.

Don't you feel that when you "sit in the hot tub" that a certain knowing (rather than concluding) occurs? I do. Unsummoned answers appear, rather than the answers I get when I figure things out. Only problem is, I may not like the answer, or it may not "fit into my life" as I perceive it. Everybody knows that it's right and I'm wrong, but who can not fight? Not fighting is a challenge I'm working on.

Thank you for your post. It really helps me get clearer.

Cheers,
cheylah

Gilana | Wed, 10/28/2009 - 15:58
jasdir singh jaura's picture

Feel "I" That............

Feel "I" That my "Ego" is increasing day by day,

jasdir singh jaura | Sat, 09/04/2010 - 10:16
Gilana's picture

How do "you" know?

You can only know that if 'you' are watching it increase somehow...

:)

Gilana | Tue, 09/07/2010 - 20:54