How seeker has to overcome the doubts and confusion in Self-Inquiry?

santthosh kumaar's picture



Average: 4.7 (3 votes)

In later stages in self inquiry, the seeker finds some doubts and confusion, which cannot be overcome if inquiry practiced on the present format prescribed in self inquiry book. If any one has done deeper research in self inquiry, and if they highlight it, it will be helpful for the seekers on the path of self inquiry and I will be very grateful to them.

1, If mind is same as Ataman,how can it vanish--when the mind appears and disappears as Waking or dream.

2.How can one be certain when one leave the external world--when the person is within the world?

3.Why leave the external world when everything is Brahman---when everything is Brahman why crate division between the world and its perceiver?

4, How can the world alone cease to exist if one do not look at it--how can the person remain without the world and where he will exist without the world?

5. Who has the subtle mind projecting through brain and senses? how can one see his subtle mind?--when the brain also piece of the gross matter?---then how can the brain come into existence after the world is created if the later depends on the brain.

6. Heart is idea created by mind, how can the mind emerge from it---when the heart disappear along with the mind and reappears along with the mind, how the mind emerge from it.

7.in deep sleep,swoon and trance, the mind turns inwards and enjoys its natural state--if so why should one inquire if one gets Ataman in sleep. with drug one can get sleep and peace or bliss.

IF sleep gives Brahman why trouble with inquiry--better get it through pills.

There are many seekers practicing inquiry for many years and waiting for something mystical to happen, why nothing happens and why their inquiry does not yield fruits.
Since Mahrshi Ramana is not present physically to guide us ,how to overcome all these obstacle in the path of inquiry?



Phroggy's picture

Another 'theory' on self inquiry

It seems that intuitive clarity is necessary. It must be seen deeply that nothing can actually see itself, as in "The eye cannot see the eye". If this is 'seen', then we know that nothing we can observe can be what we are, and we also know that mind cannot observe the Self. That nicely clears out every thought, feeling and object in the universe as the possible identity of the Self.

Beyond that, it can be intuitively noticed that there isn't even a subject to the seeing, only the seeing itself. You are What Is. It doesn't need to be much more complex than that.

Phroggy | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 20:48
Omkaradatta's picture

Answers...

1, If mind is same as Ataman,how can it vanish--when the mind appears and disappears as Waking or dream.

--> Mind is really just a thought arising, now. No such entity is really there as a continuous mind stretching over time.

2.How can one be certain when one leave the external world--when the person is within the world?

--> Because the sense of 'externality' departs. Perceiving itself doesn't go away.

3.Why leave the external world when everything is Brahman---when everything is Brahman why crate division between the world and its perceiver?

--> That's what we already do, create division between the world and its perceiver. That (sense of) division is what goes away. You are life, life is you.

4, How can the world alone cease to exist if one do not look at it--how can the person remain without the world and where he will exist without the world?

--> The world doesn't cease to exist, only known for sure as imaginary/dream. It isn't there as world, only as imagination.

5. Who has the subtle mind projecting through brain and senses? how can one see his subtle mind?--when the brain also piece of the gross matter?---then how can the brain come into existence after the world is created if the later depends on the brain.

--> "Subtle mind" is only a term that doesn't mean much of anything. The brain is within the mind, and mind within the brain. The two are really one.

6. Heart is idea created by mind, how can the mind emerge from it---when the heart disappear along with the mind and reappears along with the mind, how the mind emerge from it.

--> Heart means "this moment, now". Obviously, that isn't some idea created by the mind. Heart doesn't come and doesn't go, it's here right now, only covered up by the mind.

7.in deep sleep,swoon and trance, the mind turns inwards and enjoys its natural state--if so why should one inquire if one gets Ataman in sleep. with drug one can get sleep and peace or bliss.

--> Because you probably don't want to become a drug addict and sleep 24 hours a day to get peace/bliss ;-).

"There are many seekers practicing inquiry for many years and waiting for something mystical to happen, why nothing happens and why their inquiry does not yield fruits."

Many possible reasons, but the most likely is they aren't nearly sincere, constant and devoted enough. Nobody can manufacture these qualities, either they're present or they aren't.

"Since Mahrshi Ramana is not present physically to guide us ,how to overcome all these obstacle in the path of inquiry?"

Sincerity, devotion and love of truth and life.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 09/19/2008 - 22:14
madan_gautam's picture

How seeker has to overcome the doubts and confusion in Self-Inqu

It is very simple & at the time very difficult.
IT is One Guru,One Mantra & Isstha Deva & one Path.
OM

madan_gautam | Wed, 01/14/2009 - 13:21
Tania's picture

these questions are irrelevant to Ramana's self enquiry

There are two very different methods that are both called self enquiry and I think you intermix between them - there is the Hindu self enquiry which is analytic and is based on discrimination (nati nati) and there is Ramana Mahrshi's self enquiry which is a mental simple method of observing the "I Thought" without any analytical or philosophical analysis.

Your questions are irrelevant to Ramana Maharshi's self enquiry. According to Ramana you need to concentrate on observing the sense of "I" and that's it while all these questions are according to him useless noises of the mind that distract you from observing the "I thought", if any of those questions arises inquire to whom they arise.

Tania | Wed, 01/14/2009 - 18:24
Omkaradatta's picture

Ramana's self-enquiry

For what it's worth, Ramana's self-enquiry is very similar to what is recommended by Nisargadatta (focus on the "I Am"). Really, the two are almost identical.

By getting rid of 'otherness' through these methods (thus eliminating 'selfness' or ego too), the answers to the OP's questions should come by themselves, silently... questions are not to be answered, but the (emotional) need to doubt and question is eliminated by recalling one's own Being.

From here, it's an amazingly effective way to Self-realization that few ever follow through on fully, as it's "too easy" and effortless for ego (which wants some difficulties and struggles toward enlightenment).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 01/14/2009 - 19:12
erez's picture

Exactly

Exactly! I see Ramana's Self Enquiry as an aiding way leading to the I-AM, to the abiding in the being with no objects. It is very difficult to just abide in the I-AM with clouds of "I" objects dancing, demanding attention, making so much noise while you are only aware of the noise and not of them.

By the way, most of the people I met who practiced NM or RM, quited at some point because they simply got bored of it. It was an excitement in the beginning like everything new (including spiritual stuff) and then this excitement of the new was over. This is a crucial point where awareness, pure motives, persistence and if I may say strong will power beyond attachment are so important.

erez | Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:22
Omkaradatta's picture

Difficulty in abiding

I agree that it can be difficult at first, but (as you noted) persistence is the key... sadly, that seems to be what almost everyone lacks. Earnestness and sincerity can't be faked... either one is sincerely devoted to carrying it through to the end (as Nisargadatta was), or one isn't.

Luckily, it can also happen "unconsciously", as a slow/gradual loss of interest in the world. If one doesn't get too upset by this (it's a real tripping point, thinking one is depressed and something is terribly wrong), it can conceivably lead to Self-realization in the end.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:09