fear

agisnake's picture



Average: 4.7 (3 votes)

Do not do anything with fear; and fear not whatever you do...



erez's picture

accept, observe, let go

And if fear is still there, just accept and be aware of this fear and then let it go, do not resist it in the name of "do not fear". This is part of the delicate art of awareness.

erez | Tue, 12/16/2008 - 14:58
Phroggy's picture

~

True nuf. Fear IS resistance, and so resisting fear just feeds fear. Hencely, it can be very effective to welcome fear.

Phroggy | Tue, 12/16/2008 - 20:32
madan_gautam's picture

Fear

If you are Awakened then there is no question of so called fear.
OM

madan_gautam | Tue, 12/16/2008 - 19:05
Phroggy's picture

~

And since everybody here is Awakened, it shouldn't be an issue? Is that the point you're making? :)~

Phroggy | Tue, 12/16/2008 - 20:34
Omkaradatta's picture

Could be...

Could be his way of saying "I am awakened, and I have no fear", i.e. using "you" (of which there is none -- it's a convenient word to help create a sense of separate self).

P.S. notice how we say "How ya doin'?" with friends, as 'ya' creates less otherness than 'you'. Spanish has a 'formal you' (su) and an 'informal you' (tu), which probably serves the same purpose.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 01:56
Phroggy's picture

~

Well, yeah, that's what he means but I assume he's not even aware of saying that himself, so I thought I'd question what he does think he's saying.

Phroggy | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 04:32
Omkaradatta's picture

MMkay

MMkay... just wanted to point out that the 'you' creates the 'me' (and vice versa), as I'm not sure all folks are aware of it. It's probably the main dualistic 'coin with two sides', at least in terms of importance to suffering.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 05:27
Phroggy's picture

~

I'm sure if I follow. The duality of the concepts and how they seem to form otherness is clear, and it actually sounds pretty odd to say "If you are Awakened" since 'you' cannot be awakened, only I. Is that what you mean?

Phroggy | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 06:28
Omkaradatta's picture

Hard to explain

It's hard to explain, but part (all?) of what ego does is to form this self-ness based on otherness. "It's you. No, it's YOU. No.... YOU!" and so on. All of this back and forth "you-ing" creates me's (through conflict), without us even thinking of ourselves... only the other.

There cannot be self-ness without otherness, and cannot be otherness without self-ness. The two are really one... they co-arise codependently.

P.S. this is why Niz said "be totally self-concerned, or totally un-self-concerned". If one side of the coin isn't created, the coin itself goes away. Focus on 'self-ness' until otherness vanishes, and self-ness will go, too.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 07:20
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, dualistic experience is all about relationship with otherness, whether it's a person or an object or an opinion/belief. It's so fundamental to experience that mind functions only in this mode, continually searching for differences in order to create more otherness. This is why mind is more interested in how it differs from other minds than how it is the same. The more differences I can find, the more of a separate sense of 'me' there is. Of course, I understand this and others don't. Hehe.

Phroggy | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 21:39
Omkaradatta's picture

Believe it or not...

"It's so fundamental to experience that mind functions only in this mode, continually searching for differences in order to create more otherness."

Believe it or not, it doesn't have to be. One of the most difficult things is convincing folks (I don't mean you specifically) that the "me" is totally unnecessary, that self/other is actually unnecessary to functioning. People (such as my mother, when we discussed it!) are so inured to it that they believe without it you just sit there and not wash your body, not eat, not do anything, not take any actions, etc.

In point of fact, 'otherness' is completely unnecessary, but it won't be believed until it goes away. There are many 'moments' throughout daily life where both the 'me' and 'otherness' goes away, but we aren't aware of these... we are just conscious and happy, functioning normally and in harmony.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 22:01
Phroggy's picture

~

Right, cause it's all happening spontaneously in an integrated way rather than in the separate individual way that it generally appears. It's already happening by itself, and then the assumption is made that there's a person doing it, and so a personal matrix of 'me' is overlaid on top of it, along with a sense of free will amd vulnerability and responsibility and fear and judgment and attachment and such.

For the folks who are so hot on practices, here's one to play with.(and I do mean play) Let yourself fall back into observer mode, meaning you're watching but not trying to do anything. If you're willing, you'll begin to notice that, if you're neither trying to cause or trying to stop things, they happen all by themselves, especially the 95% of your day that requires no mental processing at all. Thought, feelings and actions arise all by themselves and 'you' are not needed at all. This WILL be a well deserved blow to ego. The 'you' that you think you are is just along for the ride.

Phroggy | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 02:23
Omkaradatta's picture

Agreed, except...

Agreed with everything but this:

"This WILL be a well deserved blow to ego."

The only thing that could be an enemy to the ego is... the ego. If you disagree, what considers ego an enemy then?

For what it's worth, Niz says: "As long as the observer, the inner self, the 'higher' self, considers himself apart from the observed, the 'lower' self, despises it and condemns it, the situation is hopeless. It is only when the observer (vyakta) accepts the person (vyakti) as a projection or manifestation of himself, and, so to say, takes the self into the Self, the duality of 'I' and 'this' goes and in the identity of the outer and the inner the Supreme Reality manifests itself."

I used to say that Self-realization is like the "I" and the "me" getting together at last... no more 'secret self' we protect and hide away from the world behind a bunch of 'inner walls'.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 03:06
Phroggy's picture

~

I can't really figure out what you heard so much. I just mean that the notion that there is somebody in control who is causing things to happen will be threatened by the realization that there isn't. The enemy of illusion is the truth.

Phroggy | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 05:34
madan_gautam's picture

could be...........?

It is my request,pl. do not twist the originality of the words and pl. do not be personal again & see the matter ,subject & words in neutral and with open mind & only then will get the real sense .Once again pl. do not be personal and pl. do not twist the words.I hope you will regard my appeal.
OM

madan_gautam | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 13:08
Phroggy's picture

Could be a mirror

I'm going to save your post and the next time you get personal and twist somebody's words, I'm going to repost it for you. Okey, dokey?

Phroggy | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 21:45
madan_gautam's picture

Could be a mirror.....~

It shows your so called awakening and your so called horizon about it.
Be happy with it and enjoy your personal ego.
I can see the lobby of so called Awakened people behind this false and egoistic propaganda.
The time will reveal all about this.
My request is to be beware from so called Awakened people.
They are here to bee fool the general public/Seekers.
There so called Awakening is just a dream in sleep or Just a glimpse about it,but i would say it is only a propaganda & the real Awakening is much beyond that they think/projecting.
They seems to be frog of a well where there is wast and infinite Sea to be KNOWN.
All are invited here to be participant and with their versions and visions.This Lobby is also invited for their criticisms & further bee fooling themselves and the other seekers.
OM

madan_gautam | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 17:20
Phroggy's picture

~

"It is my request,pl. do not twist the originality of the words and pl. do not be personal again & see the matter ,subject & words in neutral and with open mind & only then will get the real sense .Once again pl. do not be personal and pl. do not twist the words.I hope you will regard my appeal."

Madan Guatam

Phroggy | Thu, 12/18/2008 - 19:37
Tania's picture

also if you are not awakened

also if you are not awakened.

Tania | Wed, 12/17/2008 - 15:12
madan_gautam's picture

if you are not awakened..........

Do not worry about Awakening.
It is so cheap now a days that it is available on roadside in few pennies and one can easily buy it from there and claim him/herself to be Enlighten.
Do not worry, every one is Enlighten , even a donkey and each and every one in this Universe and no need to search your so called truth, as it is the false propaganda from some false people.
You & your self is truth and every one is already Enlighten at the time of birth itself.
So Enjoy the life as you like.
OM

madan_gautam | Sat, 12/20/2008 - 13:09
agisnake's picture

light

Man makes his reasons to suit himself...true belief is independent of reason...

agisnake | Sat, 12/20/2008 - 17:58