Existence

12kris's picture



Average: 4.5 (2 votes)

There was a conversation between a Western Scientist and an Indian Saint. The Scientist asked, " What in the Advaita faith explains how you and me are a part of each other, when I feel as me and me alone?"
The Saint replied, "Look at your body which feels as you, you do not feel it as the myriad organs it is made up of- the eyes , the nose or the toes. You feel all of them as a part of the whole you. That is because you are in a healthy state. But if you were to have a broken arm or a bruised toe, you will feel the as separate entities and not as a part of the whole you."
"Similarly, one who has imbibed the essence of Advaita, perceives, others as an extension of the same truth that you are. It is only a diseased mind that perceives them with walls that divide."
Looks like understanding the truth of Advaita is the last step in the shrinking of the world.



Tania's picture

it is just because the bodies are phisycally disconnected

we are conditioned to regard things which physically are not glued as separate. that's it.

another example is when i plant silicon in your chest. is the silicon part of me?

a good post i read that discusses this issue beautifuly is in http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/3-reasons-why-you-believe-you-are-body-3-r...

Tania | Thu, 10/16/2008 - 07:30
12kris's picture

In and out

Even the chicken that you eat is not considered a part of you. That is in spite of the fact that it has nourished your body and its nutrients have become an integral part of your body. It ridicules our logic, when we are unable to define what is 'I' and what is the rest, when we are constantly shedding cells, and exchanging it with entities outside you. This paradox is solved when we realize that there is only one entity that pervades inside and outside us.

12kris | Thu, 10/16/2008 - 09:01
Omkaradatta's picture

Chicken and egg...

I like to use the example of the brain: is the mind in the brain, or is the brain in the mind? It seems to be a chicken or egg scenario, but the answer is "both", is it not? The brain is in the mind, we know about it there... and the mind is in the brain. The two are really one. There is no inner, nor outer -- it is a false division.

P.S. another example is that we perceive the body and its senses through the body and its senses. There cannot be a separate 'me' there doing the perceiving. Perceiver/perceived are one.

Nisargadatta: "The five senses and the three qualities (gunas) are your eight steps in Yoga. And 'I am' is the Great Reminder (mahamantra). You can learn from them all you need to know. Be attentive, enquire ceaselessly. That is all."

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 01:55
12kris's picture

That's it

Hi Omkar,
That is exactly what I am saying- that there is no in and out. It is a continuum. But try telling that to the world which is daggers drawn at others, not realizing that they are all reflections of the same truth. The world needs to be reminded of this truth constantly, because our body's instinct plays tricks on us. We have to goad the body out of its feeling of exclusion from all else. Btw, the brain is localized, but the mind is para-cerebral.
tks
krish

12kris | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 05:22
Omkaradatta's picture

Reminding the world...

"But try telling that to the world which is daggers drawn at others, not realizing that they are all reflections of the same truth. The world needs to be reminded of this truth constantly, because our body's instinct plays tricks on us."

The best we can do is awaken ourselves, thus decreasing the number of suffering in the world by one. If everybody did this, the world would be awakened. If everybody is busy reminding everyone else, nobody wakes up :-p.

Once we are 'awake', to live the truth is the most powerful example of all. Talk is practically nothing, everybody can talk about spirituality, but to actually live it can move mountains.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 06:45
Omkaradatta's picture

Maybe it's a little more...

Maybe it's a little more than just being conditioned to regard things that aren't glued together as separate. Our identification with the body tends to obstruct the truth, as we believe a self can perceive itself. If it cannot, then nothing is ourselves, or everything is, or both.

Everything currently in awareness is 'me', so I don't tune out or filter any perceptions... they are all arriving at once here, with no inner or outer to them. If you say "turn outward" or "turn inward", I don't know what you mean, other than a memory of thought/feeling supposed to be 'within' and sounds/sights supposed to be 'out there'. I am an organism of raw perception, in constant interaction... not with an external environment, but just in interaction.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 02:24
12kris's picture

Living in the din...

It is enough if we change rather than make the whole world change. Yes, but some of us have an uneasy partnership with an evolved soul and a very demanding body (I had sent you the article for this purpose- the partnership of the Heuristic computer HAL 9000 with the Soul, Dave, who takes a back seat. When we realize that Dave has to take charge, Hal starts its tantrums.
I, for one. have worked with a boisterous Hal, which I have reigned in to some extant, only to see it slipping away every now and then. What makes my task more difficult is the din of the outside world, where there are well meaning guys constantly telling me, "...Your work has such good quality...but you are not positioning yourself correctly.." Sometimes I try to tell them. " I have only one foot in the material boat, let me make a smooth transition to the spiritual boat, where my other foot is. Don't pull me back, it is a struggle as such.."
I don't think they understand. But if they don't understand, they will continuously distract me.
As I said before, I have only intellectually understood spiritual truths. I have a long road ahead. From your mails, I can understand that you are way ahead. I hope to catch up with you in a few hundred lives(births).
Thanks
krish

12kris | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 12:04
Omkaradatta's picture

Partnership

"...some of us have an uneasy partnership with an evolved soul and a very demanding body..."

I understand this is just a figure of speech, but are you not the 'soul' you refer to? Are you separate from it? How can you have a partnership with it?

"From your mails, I can understand that you are way ahead. I hope to catch up with you in a few hundred lives(births)."

You can 'catch up' in this one, if you stop trying to catch up and be what you are, now. This involves finding out and transcending what you are not.

Fwiw, I've had a very difficult life, but anything can be transcended. It is all memory, nothing more. I understand about the din of the 'outside world', but perhaps you will find a time when you can break away from it and spend an extended period of time alone in meditation and contemplation. Often, that is what we need in order to shed the world and come to our Self.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 18:26
12kris's picture

Let me repeat what I have

Let me repeat what I have been saying about how most people feel about their constitution. They feel as the body alone. People who are making spiritual progress, discover their soul, but initially it is like "now you see it, and now you don't. It is like trying to see an object inside a glass case in a brightly lit room. As much as u try to see it, u keep seeing the mirror like reflections. Then u see the object and then it is gone again. For people who are in this situation are often put off by the talk about the soul that more evolved people are engaged in. Many have told me "There may be a soul. But I feel only the body- I feel its hunger, its lack of sleep, and it affects my functions if i miss my sleep for one night. It is very tangible."
I understand that. I realize that if I have migrated to a level of awareness where my soul is all important, I should not dishearten those who are on the first steps of the path by telling them to ignore the body and work for the soul. If my objective is to help them, and myself too, in the process, I have to avoid alienating them.

12kris | Sat, 10/18/2008 - 03:16
Phroggy's picture

Soul theory

You discovered a soul? In what sense did you discover this? I mean what sort of experience or realization or whatever?

Phroggy | Sat, 10/18/2008 - 06:07
Omkaradatta's picture

False split

There's no separate body and soul... words and concepts alone give us this idea. There is only the Self, which encompasses the thoughts, feelings, body, mind, world and everything. This is actually what we perceive, the Self, but we falsely divide it into 'inner' and 'outer' (as you know) and then set one against the other, block out some perceptions, try to hide from the world (what we feel is external to us), build some 'inner' walls made of thought and habit.

There's no need to set the body against the soul either, the two are really one. All that has to happen is for the walls to come down, for the 'subconscious' mind to come to the surface and dissolve. The reason you feel to be a soul 'in' the body is that you are identified with the body (and because you fear death). Disidentify with it, and you are everything.

There's no need to fear death anymore either -- there is truly nothing but life. I perceive no death in my Self, nor can I even conceive of it. Therefore, it doesn't exist.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 10/18/2008 - 21:57
12kris's picture

Yes indeed my friends

Like all of us have, to varying degrees, I too have. Some periods, this realization is a blip- its gone like a will-o-the -wisp. Some days the feeling stays. We know this, because we feel at peace with all the injustice going on. That is because we are able to think out of the body, when I feel as much for you, as I feel for myself. That is my discovery of my soul- something which is not mine alone, but all pervading.

12kris | Sat, 10/18/2008 - 06:40