Book of Revelation: Seals, chaff, chakras....?

Quantum's picture



Average: 5 (4 votes)

After my morning mediation, this thought came to mind: Is it possible that the seven seals written about in the Book of Revelations is a reference to the seven chakras? (I'm not well versed in the chakras or The Seals, so excuse the in accuracy if the number is incorrect.)

The bible is full of symbolism, and metaphors, to explain what cannot be adequately described or labeled with words. Even The Tao Te Ching says something to the effect that if you can name it, that is not it. Jesus’s statement that “The Kingdom of Heaven is like…” and then used analogies of farming, fishing, and other events to which people of the day could relate, seems consistent with the idea that “Heaven” cannot accurately be labeledd with words. It can only be described with analogies at best. Buddha used negation to point to it. He pointed to it by describing what it is not. What is left is it. LOL. I have trouble with that one... I prefer using analogies to everyday things in life. A good analogy for me to desribe heaven/earth/free will/time is a software game program on CD-ROM. Analogies work better for me. Oh my, I’m getting off topic.

So…anyway..What do you think? Seven Seals…seven chakras? Comments anyone? My mind is thirsty to drink from the fountain of your knowledge.

This other thought came also, that the depiction of Angels coming to earth to separate the wheat from the chaff, and burning the chaff in fire, could be reference to what happens to negative emotions when Abiding in and being rooted in BEING---that detachment, separation, and distancing from, negative emotions is a by product of abiding in “I AM”, that negative emotions are burned up when separated and observed from this level of Awareness, and thus transmuted into peace. It is a sort of Alchemical transmutation of base emotions into Presence, as Tolle describes it. Could this could be what the “Second Coming of Christ (Consciousness)” represents? A second happening of Enlightenment?

These metaphors of Angels (Higher Level of Consciousness), and chaff (negativity) seems congruent with the subconscious mind’s symbolic method of communicating concepts. It does not use words, but symbols, and instant “aha” insights. It is when conveyed by the conscious mind that “insights” and concepts are translated into inadequate words. Comments on this one?



Leon's picture

The Answer is "Yes!"

Dear Quantum,

Yes, precisely. The 7 Seals in the book of Revelation (ch.5) is a reference to first of all, the Holy Spirit, the Seal- (Ephesians 1:13, Who is also called the Seven Spirits (manifestations)of God (Isaiah 11:1-2; Revelation 1:4; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6; etc)- that concerns the Book itself, the Bible as being sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Yet as to your question (over a year old) is that as pertains to us individuals who are potentially letters (books or epistles) of Christ (2Corinthians 3:1-3)- we, too, are sealed as it were, with 7 seals. These are not as physiologically locatable as are the Hindu chakras (albeit located in the yogic body), but are more akin to the Sufi idea of latifa, or subtle centers of one's being. What I've seen in Scripture and experience I've called neshamot, the 7 breaths of one's being. To answer more fully, I'll provide a link to a blog I wrote a while back on this:

http://mysticalconsciousness.blogspot.com/2007/07/neshamot-subtle-physio...

Be blessed,

Leon.

Leon | Sat, 01/29/2011 - 23:47
joejo's picture

Centers

Hi Leon,

I find (?) a corelation between the breaths as mentioned in your blog and the centers as described by Gurdjieff which are:

Instinctive

Moving

Emotional

Thinking

Higner emotional

Higher thinking

True I

I think ( needs to be probed) this higher emotional and thinking has a corelation and is located as per some in the heart where the lord is said to reside for bhakts different from Anahat or heart chakra of yogies and the higher thinking is the sahashar or thousand petal lotus whereas the Self is supposed to be in the 'Heart' as told by Ramana Maharshi

joejo | Sun, 01/30/2011 - 02:27
joejo's picture

Correction Centers

I made a mistake between correlations so let be give the correspondences as I see, between the ones mentioned in your blog and between system of Gurdjieff as I understand it and the oriental one.

1) Neshamah-behemot: The subtlety of our physical body, our "beast-nature";

Gurdjieff -- Instinctive (that which maintains the functioning of the body like breathing, heartbeat, digestion etc.)

Hindu --- Mooladhara ( That which is the basis of life said to be at the base of spine)

2) Neshamah-nepheshi: The subtlety of our self, our soul;

Gurdjieff -- Sex ( that which acts as a neutralising force between the other two which are instinctive and moving which is the third and together the three constitute the lower storie.)

Hindu --- Swadisthan (the home or natural abode of our life)

3) Neshamah-lev: The subtlety of our heart (Mt 22.37);

Gurdjieff -- Emotional (center of our ordinary emotions)

He mentions Moving center as the third which is the center of mechanical action or our learnt reflexes and body postures. A center of imitation.

Hindu --- Anahat ( Seat of our emotions)

The third is Manipur ( A place of jewel or a storehouse of our energies that helps us deal with life and its responses)

4) Neshamah-sod halev: The subtlety of our secret heart ( Psa 51.6; Lk 2.51; IPet 3.4).

Gurdjieff -- Higher emotional (the seat of higher emotions)

Hindu --- Heart for the devotee where Lord resides which is not the same as Anahat but is deeper but probably at the center of chest.

5) Neshamah-ruach: The subtlety of our spirit man;

Gurdjieff -- Thinking (the center of thinking)

Hindu --- Vishuddha ( meaning pure which controls our speech or expressed thought)

6) Neshamah-chayim: The subtlety of our spiritual life ( Gen 7.22; Jn 20.31; 1Jn 5.11-12);

Gurdjieff -- higher Thinking ( Where one can see things objectively)

Hindu --- Anja (Meaning Command or the center of our waking divine soul)

7) Neshamah-yachidah: The subtlety of our oneness with the One (Jn 17.21-22; 1Cor 6.17; Ga 3.20).

Gurdjieff -- True I ( this is not a center as such but the source of Will and may roughly correspond with Anja)

Hindu--- Sahasrar ( thousand petal lotus which is the center for cosmic consciousness)

Hindus (in particular Ramana Maharshi) say the true seat of Self if the Heart which is different from anahat and more than having a correspondense with our body it is the core of Being.

joejo | Sun, 01/30/2011 - 03:41
Leon's picture

The Other Correspondences

Thank you for providing the other correspondences from the Hindu Tradition. I've definitely thought on these also as correlative with what I had been seeing.

One interesting thought- kind of related to the different approach that Ramana Maharshi takes-

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, too, had an interesting take on the Shiva-Shakti relationship in terms of his Advaitic view. For him (and it bears witness) is that Shiva is the I Am and Shakti is the power and energy of Consciousness. He taught how we're to take, via Prana(chi, or breath)and raise our awareness of what is witnessed in Consciousness (Shakti) up to the I Am Presence (Shiva).

Does this make sense?

Leon | Sun, 01/30/2011 - 04:17
joejo's picture

Advaita Vedanta

As you are aware from the point of view of Advaita there are no two but only one in so much as you can't even call it that for one implies counting.

Ramanas view is that there is no creation and never was one which is called ajativada. Though he did not mean the same as Shankara's view that world is a illusion.

So I AM is not the absolute state but the definition of Atman or Self in individual context. He said that I, World and God arise together. The sponteneous arising of subtle I is called aham sphuran and when even this dissolves by the grace of Lord what remains is the indefinable Absolute.

In my understanding it is same as I Am being the Word or Logos and Father being that from which it arises or in which it has its Being.

Now the word Pran has to be taken in sevenfold way. In places in Vedas its said food is Pran. Infact it is the lifeforce that pervades everything and is the supreme consiousness.

I would not be in a position to say about what Nisargdutta meant but as per Ramana The Shakti and Absolute (Brahman) are the two fold aspect of the same thing in its twin aspects of movement and rest.

How does this correlate to

Holy God, Holy the Firm, Holy the Immortal, have mercy on us

joejo | Sun, 01/30/2011 - 08:25
Leon's picture

God and Creation

I agree with what you're saying. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj was also in agreement with Sri Ramana Maharshi on the points you raise, whether or not he may have used different terms or not.

I Am is a point of Awareness, and hence arising in Consciousness. Being is beyond Consciousness. The point I was discussing was that in Consciousness how can Shakti (consciousness) be united with Shiva (I Am)? While 'I Am' too is a part of Consciousness it, it is the point of departure, as it were- the key that brings us to the "abyss"- the point of no-point, the Place of No-place. All that can be said of That is Nothing, Silence. As the Tao Te Ching states, the Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao. And it is so, the I Am points one to the Tao that 'can' be Named, God, etc, but to go beyond, even 'I Am' has to drop off, it's true.

When we awake in the morning, there is I Am, there is God and Cosmos. Beyond Consciousness, Being and Awareness may be there, but Consciousness of what remains? Yet, all these words arise in Consciousness, as do all concepts.

It may be that as long as one is in the body, the ego-self, the 'i' arises. We may be aware of it, and not identify with it. That's the point of being Awake, wouldn't you say? It may be that one will always arise in Consciousness as an individual particular entity- as even when one departs the body, they're yet sheathed in soul and spirit. For the Christian Tradition, it will also be that one's very body is resurrected (in the Resurrection of Life), and yet we'll always have the grace to disappear into the Ocean that is God, the Self, and drink deep the Bliss that is He.

It's a mystery, but while we seek to find out our deepest mystery in God (as Self, or as Other), He in turn seeks to know His deepest mystery in us as individuals. We are thus particular and specific glories of Him, so many words and sentences which tell His story.

Peace.

Leon | Mon, 01/31/2011 - 18:08
Leon's picture

Heart Center

I am interested to learn more about Gurdjieff's view of the subtle physiology. I was not conscious of any correlation with him, as I have a very peripheral knowledge of him. Though, he himself was influenced by Sufis, right?

The Sufis view the subtle centers as located in the chest area, there are various spots which vary from order to order.

As far as Ramana Maharshi goes, I know that he viewed the chakras in an esoteric light- and for Him, as you said, the Heart is the Self. And at some point (the point of no-point) "center", or other terms for location become inapplicable. And, in a sense, at that point 'all' becomes a center- as it were.

My view (as they've developed somewhat since I wrote that blog) are that each neshamah (or breath) is the 'heart'- as a progression of concentric circles from circumference to center. We may thus speak of:

1. The physical heart
2. The Psychic (soulish) heart
3. The heart of the heart (the will- center of the soul)
4. The secret heart
5. The spiritual heart (or spirit as heart)
6. The spirit-life of the heart
7. The heart of hearts- as it were; the Heart as Ramana Maharshi spoke of, the Self.

Blessings.

Leon | Sun, 01/30/2011 - 04:08
joejo's picture

Gurdjieff

I think Gurdjieff learnt from many sources but he preffered to call his system esoteric predating Christianity, yet he said (quote from In Search of Miraculous)

"What is the relation of the teaching you are expounding to Christianity as we know it?" asked somebody present.

"I do not know what you know about Christianity," answered G(Gurdjieff), emphasizing this word. "It would be necessary to talk a great deal and to talk for a long time in order to make clear what you understand by this term. But for the benefit of those who know already, I will say that, if you like, this is esoteric Christianity. We will talk in due course about the meaning of these words. At present we will continue to discuss our questions.

joejo | Sun, 01/30/2011 - 08:02
Leon's picture

Side Stepping a Potential Quagmire

I like how Gurdjieff avoided what he perceived as multiple potential pitfalls in that question, eh?

He called his system, "Esoteric Predating Christianity"? To what was he referring to, the Hellenic and Judaic forms of gnosticism?

Leon | Mon, 01/31/2011 - 23:06
joejo's picture

Probably Egyptian

He talks of Atlantis and then the system going to Egypt. Not the Egypt we know but the one that was there predating it before the sands covered it.

I for one can trace strong connections to ancient Indian thought of Sankhya wherein its stated that world is created by combination of three forces.

He does mention the 'as above so below' and the Kabbala system of symbology of letters so can say that he was familiar with it.

joejo | Mon, 01/31/2011 - 23:22
Leon's picture

I See

I see, he had a host of different schools of thought from which he could draw from.

Thanks for the info. I ought to do some more research on him.

Blessings.

Leon | Wed, 02/02/2011 - 16:33
Nathyogi's picture

Re: Book of Revelation: Seals, chaff, chakras....?

Unless a self-realized Guru is served, these doubts cannot be dispelled.

Nathyogi | Sun, 09/28/2014 - 04:25
Nathyogi's picture

Re: Book of Revelation: Seals, chaff, chakras....?

Unless a self-realized Guru is served, these doubts cannot be dispelled.

Nathyogi | Sun, 09/28/2014 - 04:26
Nathyogi's picture

Re: Book of Revelation: Seals, chaff, chakras....?

Unless a self-realized Guru is served, these doubts cannot be dispelled.

Nathyogi | Sun, 09/28/2014 - 04:26