Belief in Skepticism (and ghosts)

nathan's picture

Average: 4.5 (14 votes)

People will resist ghost stories forcefully. Instead, they will label the story teller as a schizofren.


Fear, of course.

Fear of what?

Fear of loosing, mainly loosing control.

Why is this fear of loosing control?

Control means that the observer and the presumebly creator want to be synchronized in order to maintain a single consistent one "I" entity which contains both the observer and the creator functions. Ghosts spoil this I-ness party by breaking this agreed synchronization called "logic".

Omkaradatta's picture

There are people...

There are people who like ghost stories, and others (into the paranormal) who don't label each other schizophrenic and enjoy talk of ghosts. But I tend to consider things such as ghosts, witches, time, space, the world, the universe, etc. as in the mind and imaginary ;-).

The mind cannot be logical by default, or people wouldn't seek comforting solace in logic. Only way around it is neither belief nor skepticism, but to see through the mind's tricks and go beyond.

Omkaradatta | Sun, 10/12/2008 - 00:03
erez's picture

Indeed the mind is not

Indeed the mind is not logical, it just has this strong conviction that it is or at least it tries to convey this feeling that it is based on pure logic in order to win our trust in it. The basic issue is what "logic" really is, how to define and determine it. Failing to define it in absolute permanent terms shows that this "sacred" worshiped shrine called "logic" is actually not that sacred as skeptical people tend to regard it.

One can argue that logic is whatever science claims and proves. But then current science suggests the Quantum Mechanics (observed reality is not objective etc.) while our everyday logic is based on the Newton mechanics (cause and effect etc.)... and moreover science changes constantly finding out at some point an antithesis that negates the previous thesis...

erez | Sun, 10/12/2008 - 06:43
Omkaradatta's picture

More on logic...

"...this "sacred" worshiped shrine called "logic" is actually not that sacred as skeptical people tend to regard it."

It certainly doesn't work in many everyday life situations, e.g. using it with a mother who just lost their child in an accident, or between two people in love. Discursive, logical thought is a closed system, a mental 'language' of sorts, and it seems here to have a very limited place, mostly in areas that require logic such as... logic and mathematics ;-).

For the most part, every day life (and advaita /spirituality too) is not logical. However, it isn't necessarily illogical or irrational, either. I like to think of it more as "non-rational", i.e. on a different plane altogether than rationality and logic.

In my view, many of science's conclusions are based on applying a logical/rational approach to non-rational issues, thus coming to false or inadequate conclusions. And sometimes spirituality can be anti-rational and arriving at false conclusions itself (e.g. 'nothing is real, it's all an illusion' or 'just seeing Arunachala guarantees enlightenment').

Omkaradatta | Wed, 10/15/2008 - 09:57
Phroggy's picture

Logic theory

Yeah, I see logic as a thought process that follows a given set of rules. If the rules are operative, logic works well and can 'see through' mental or emotional blocks, but if the rules are not known, or even nonexistent, as they are in most of spirituality, logic is even less effective than feeling driven thought, which might actually sense a grain of truth. There is a depth of both mind and heart where clarity may show up on it's own, beneath superficial thinking and feeling.

Phroggy | Thu, 10/16/2008 - 04:13
Omkaradatta's picture

Depth of mind and heart

"There is a depth of both mind and heart where clarity may show up on it's own, beneath superficial thinking and feeling."

I know... I am living it :-p. It comes when we go in depth into what we have and are, and stop chasing after some future gain somewhere down the road, chasing excitement/stimulation, looking for what we don't have, looking for what we are not.

Normally it happens only to the very young and the very old... everybody else is chasing. And even they don't discover the depths that we can when it happens 'consciously'.

Omkaradatta | Thu, 10/16/2008 - 19:12
Phroggy's picture

Depth theory

Mind without heart is sterile.
Heart without mind is sentimental.
The pearl diver takes all to the depths,
His courage and his wits,
His wonder and his wisdom.
One eye for beauty,
And the other for clarity.

Phroggy | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 17:28
Omkaradatta's picture

The pearl diver...

When he leaves the shallows, the pearl diver will find that he is the pearl. No need to take anything with him, for he is already what he is. God is approached naked and alone, in no other way.

Omkaradatta | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 18:30
Phroggy's picture


It means, in the seeking, go to a depth of both mind and heart. (It's a poem)

Phroggy | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 18:41
Omkaradatta's picture

I know....

Consider my post above to be prose, in response to your poem ;-).

I can't respond from the heart anymore when it comes to seeking (if I ever could... never really enjoyed it). I can only sing the praises of being what one is.

P.S. if you meant the poem solely as a response (as per above, "go to a depth of both mind and heart in the seeking"), well, why not just say it instead?

Omkaradatta | Fri, 10/17/2008 - 19:16
nancy pro's picture

skepticism is also a belief

we must always remember that skepticism is also a belief. We tend to regard skepticism as a neutral point but it is not. When you inspect it closely you see that it is also based on assumptions and beliefs such as that whatever you see is what exists and only what you see exists (and therefore ghosts and other paranormal phenomena do not exist), that only whatever science proves is valid etc.

Realizing that skepticism is yet another conditioned belief helps skeptical people to make the first and important shift to a middle neutral point (e.g. ghosts MAY exist) from which they can come closer to spirituality and belief in more substantial stands in which they can experience by themselves their validity (e.g. sense or not sense presence of ghosts by themselves and communicate with them) and not rely on hearsay (bible, science, authority, theory etc.).

nancy pro | Sun, 10/12/2008 - 08:52
avi's picture

daily remembrance

Remembering this is so important. Western society tends to regard skepticism as some educated advanced approach and we are getting conditioned by this attitude.

avi | Sun, 01/04/2009 - 07:07
Phroggy's picture


There are two sides to that conditioning coin. The other may involve worshiping sun gods and planet gods or following gurus who don't know their advaita from a hole in the ground. The only way to reconcile is through discrimination, always asking what is really so and feeling around for the boundaries.

Phroggy | Sun, 01/04/2009 - 07:37
neo's picture


I do not fully agree with that. Discrimination is based on logic and the senses - exactly the same ground that skepticism uses. Discrimination is yet another secular activity which for example negates worshiping of sun gods and planet gods.

This is exactly the problem of neo advaita.

I learned that the only ways out are praying and/or meditation. Iin other words: bypassing the mind, signaling to something beyond, to the metaphysical sphere. These are the only activities that can bypass the mind and logic. And then from beyond something happens, something reconnects which is nothing we do or can do, you can call it grace.

neo | Fri, 06/19/2009 - 14:47
Phroggy's picture


I agree. 'Discrimination' was probly a poor choice of words on my part. Bypassing the mind, yes. I call it intuition.

Phroggy | Sat, 06/20/2009 - 20:05