ARE WE CONSCIOUS?

ONLYPILL's picture



Average: 4.3 (3 votes)

ARE WE CONSCIOUS?

What is consciousness?

We hear, read, and think that we think about it, but what is it?

And what terms/conditions would have to be met to achieve this "exalted" state?

Let's start with a simple example.

Does a grape have awareness?

What would that look like?

Can a grape conceive of the reality that it's just the reproductive function of the Grape Vine?

NO

How would a grape know how limited it really is?

It can't, for the same reason the the Grape Vine cannot conceive of it's limited scope of existence!

But then again, the grape council would rule that grapes are intelligent, self governing individuals having the right to choose and vote!

The Grape Vine is unaware of the absurdity of it's grapes, but it's of no real consequence as the grapes are just a passing reproductive vehicle anyways.

Perhaps all the Grape Vines have formed some sort of a group proclaiming their independence also!

Are we really any different?

Do you really believe that you have a separate existence apart from the process that has both created you, and supports the conditions necessary for your existence?

If you exist, you must have come from somewhere.

Where were you before you were born?

And where will you be when you die?

ONLYPILL



NIDHI PARKASH's picture

are we what

not known yet as per science but there are many other systems of knowledge which may have spoken about it with various explanations .

to you ,
may light of knowledge dawn

NIDHI PARKASH | Thu, 08/20/2009 - 16:43
Phroggy's picture

The 'You' is exitence itself

The 'You' is exitence itself (Consciousness) and not the human, so the human does not "achieve" it and it is not a "state of something". You did not "come from somewhere" because you are not the thing you think is here to begin with.

Phroggy | Thu, 08/20/2009 - 20:32
joshoda's picture

Law of conservation of

Law of conservation of energy states that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed; it can just be transformed from one form to another.
According to my understanding we are solidified flux of multiple energy. We are never created so how can we be destroyed. Everything that we see and feel in this existence is in the state of suchness and isness. We were never born so as to die.
As long as a particular energy identifies itself with that energy it will be so. Till the grape vine identifies itself as a grape vine it will remain as a grape vine. But on the day when grape vine misidentify itself as grapes it will take up a higher transformation. Same is the case with human being. Till the day we limit ourselves to this very flesh, blood and thoughts we remain in the human plane. The breakthrough from all the identification is the evolution of consciousness. Perhaps consciousness is all about a drop of water melting into ocean and becoming an ocean or a human soul misidentifying itself as a human and becoming the existence itself

joshoda | Fri, 08/21/2009 - 04:19
ONLYPILL's picture

LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY

Well written

Just a question?

Does this remind you of the well described but never satisfactorily explained power of MAYA to keep us attached?

Is the force we call MAYA that jealous of her audience?

MAYA truly is a formidable force.

But why?

Or are we really MAYA, and we are deluding ourselves that we wish liberation from MAYA's power?

Is it really all a parlor game, and we play without admitting that we are hooked on the game?

ONLYPILL | Fri, 08/21/2009 - 04:35
Phroggy's picture

Something like that. The

Something like that. The nature of the 'game' is to accept the reality of it. In maybe an odd way, we could say that form follows interest. The interest is played out within the form (or dream) and so there is no creator or thinker outside of the illusion, and there really is no maya, which is just a concept for this entrancement of interest.

Beingness is engaged with it's own spontaneous creation, not unlike a human daydream or nightly dream in which the created is also the creator, forming within the creator as a manifestation of his own intelligence and imagination. Put simply, and somewhat poetically, God created a dream and fell into it; fell in love with it, and as with all dreams, they sometimes become nightmares because if they did not, they would lose their momentum of interest and fade as easily as they came.

The 'process' of Awakening from the dream begins with disillusionment, so this should never be feared or resented. The serious spiritual seeker is losing interest in the dream that has so many entranced, and he hears the morning dove calling outside his bedroom window through his own somnambulistic haze.

Phroggy | Fri, 08/21/2009 - 06:33
ONLYPILL's picture

SOMETHING LIKE THAT

i GROG WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT STILL THE QUESTION REMAINS, WHAT ARE WE?

If GOD (WHATEVER THAT IS) fell in love with his own dream, and fell into it, then all we can say is creation has a vivid imagination!

But we don't know the rules that Brahma plays by.

More bizarrely, if Brahma is just dreaming all this up, then Brahma has no rules in any conventional sense.

Perhaps we need to look at The Jewel Net of Indra for assistance here. The Great Enchanter reflecting it's own reflection infinitely into its own Jewels.

It does offer some very strange possibilities!

No wonder Herman Hesse went insane playing the Glass Bead Game!

Just relax and enjoy it may be the only real option for lowly creatures such as ourselves!

ONLYPILL | Fri, 08/21/2009 - 07:35
Phroggy's picture

Yes, rules are for thieves,

Yes, rules are for thieves, cowards and fools to use for their own purposes, and we've become so accepting that rules must lie at the root of all movement that we think Brahma must employ them. If your nature is Freedom itself, what rules would you follow or drag behind?

I saw one time the infinite potential of creation encased in a delicate glass, balanced on the head of a pin. It means to say only the Perfect harmony of this singular dance prevents the universe from dissolving before your eyes. There are no rules, and Brahma is the dance itself.

The love of Brahma collapses into your own heart right now. Without this love, you would not awaken to greet your creation every morning. The imagination of Brahma conjures in your own mind here and now, and fills your senses with wondrous creatures and melodic sounds; horrors, enchantment, ugliness and beauty. It is not far away, and it is not other. You are not in the 'lowly creature', the creature is in you. How much nearer can you be to Brahma than that which peers through Brahma's eyes?

Phroggy | Sat, 08/22/2009 - 06:47
ONLYPILL's picture

Phroggy's picture Yes, rules are for thieves,

Let's assume that you are correct in that
"You are not in the 'lowly creature', the creature is in you."

Perhaps I would prefer that the Lowly Creature end his visit in me!

I might suspect that the Lowly Creature is not a good roommate, and is behind on his rent!

Where does one go to get an eviction order?

ONLYPILL | Sun, 08/23/2009 - 05:16
Phroggy's picture

Hehe. But the lowly creature

Hehe. But the lowly creature IS you by virtue of arising within you, which is to say, the creature is you but you are not the creature.
:::Strategically ignoring the 'picture' comment:::::

Phroggy | Sun, 08/23/2009 - 08:36
joshoda's picture

Maya is born out of our

Maya is born out of our inability to connect with the whole in oneness.
Have you ever looked at the tree without any preconceptualized idea of a tree? If u had, then the tree and you are not two separate entities but one. Either you exist in a tree or a tree exists in you.
But Human beings suffer from subtle schizophrenia of Iness. He is my dad or she is my daughter, that is my car ,this is a table. We have such a strong self built preconception or conditionings that we are unable to connect and the Maya comes in a picture. Something that is not real but we see it as real get identified with it and suffer.

joshoda | Sat, 08/22/2009 - 04:28
Phroggy's picture

All things move in the

All things move in the tension that forms between what seems, and what IS. Honor the fire that burns within you to seek beyond yourself. Suffering is not a curse but a blessing, not a demon but an angel calling you onward. How else would you have it be?

Phroggy | Sat, 08/22/2009 - 07:00
joshoda's picture

Suffering is the first step

Suffering is the first step to the gates of immortality. But we cannot effort to stand on the first step forever. Sooner we take another step better for us.
Yes, had there been no suffering the urge to seek for higher plane would have never arose. No wonder plants, animals and the birds on the wings do not suffer like we do.However I feel we need to recognize the Maya of suffering coz it does not exist in the first place and just take another step to eternal bliss.

joshoda | Mon, 08/24/2009 - 03:51
seeker's picture

Wasting time on defintions

Logic and definitions only complicate the simple - you get an answer and 2 follow up questions arise. It leads nowhere.

There are different definitions to consciousness and awareness and none of them is important. Select the definitions that best serve you. The classical definition is conciseness as the substratum of your presence. If you are present "here and now" then your consciousness is here and now, if you are present in the purest point (which is not the "here and now" which is only of the body) then your consciousness is in the source, sometimes called being. And if you are daydreaming then your consciousness is where your dreams take you.

What you ask regarding the grape is not consciousness or awareness but intellectual knowledge which clearly it does not have (no external indications) or needs to have.

Latly, conciousness comes in all levels - every cell and tissue of your body has conciousness (science approves this), your toe has conciousness, your body, you as a subject, a collective of people... and so on.

The most important (or rather the only important) thing is: It is just that you have chosen to identify with the conciousness in the level of your body rather than with the conciousness in the level of the toe or a group you belong to. You can switch your identification from level to level and witness it by yourself.

It is simpler than it seems, it is simpler than the doctrines spiritual theoreticians will design and get confused in, and above all it is subject to your experience - you can see it by yourself.

seeker | Sun, 08/23/2009 - 12:51
ONLYPILL's picture

Wasting time on defintions

Your point is correct in that it exposes the "apparent futility" of logical inquiry.

Yet, that is part of the learning process, as we all think in words/symbols, because our "minds" work as an analog (by comparison) computer.

If we could apprehend the world we live in directly, without having to rely upon everything that is detected by all our sensors (eyes,ears, touch, smell,etc), understanding things would perhaps be easier.

But everything is translated into electrical impulses that our brain attempts to translate somewhere deep in our brains.

We're watching a movie while sitting in a dark cave (deep in our brain)!

It's a design problem.

Untill we evolve into some new type of organism, we're stuck with it.

So,we must plug along, continue to try and learn by comparison.

Most people are unaware that they are working on completely invalid premises.

See Alan Watts for more on this!

ONLYPILL | Sun, 08/23/2009 - 21:07