Schizophrenia or an advanced spiritual state?

nancy pro's picture



Average: 4.7 (34 votes)

What is Schizophrenia?

Schizophrenia is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality and the sense of self.

What are the symptoms of Schizophrenia?

Symptoms of Schizophrenia include from the perspective of mainstream psychology: an altered sense of self or loss of sense of self, hallucinations, delusions and thought disorder.

The symptom of altered sense of self describes the blurring of feelings about who he or she is. Sometimes the feelings involve sensations of being bodiless, or like a non-existent person. The individual sometimes can not decipher where his body stops and the rest of the world begins, as if the body and the person are separated.

It is thought that hallucinations are the result of an over-sharpening of the senses and of the ability that the brain has to appropriately interpret and respond to incoming messages. Hallucinations could include hearing voices, both complimentary and threatening, that are perceived to be inside or outside the person's body. They could also include seeing something that is not there or experiencing unusual sensations on the body.

Delusions could be described as strange, committed beliefs held only by the person diagnosed, who refuses to change the belief despite strong evidence to the contrary. Examples could include believing traffic signals are instructions from aliens, or the belief that they are being watched, spied upon, or plotted against.

Thought disorder is a symptom involving the way that a person with schizophrenia processes and organizes their thoughts. Usually their thoughts "race" along so rapidly that the person can not "catch them." Because the person's thinking is so disorganized, their speech can be incoherent, and their emotional responses can be inappropriate. Sometimes the person's words and mood do not coordinate with one another.

A mental illness or an advanced spiritual state?

We cannot run away from the fact that these symptoms of Schizophrenia are similar to some of the symptoms of higher spiritual states including enlightenment.

Is it possible that the negative view of the symptoms of Schizophrenia is cultural driven? That maybe these symptoms are not abnormal but paranormal?

Is it possible that some of the cases diagnosed based on the symptoms as Schizophrenia are actually psychic transformations, advanced spiritual state?

Is it possible that the mental suffering accompanying Schizophrenia is actually not due to Schizophrenia itself but due to a feeling of not being normal, due to the resistance to the new state, due to the fear and loss of control?

And on the other hand, is it possible that some of those proclaiming themselves as enlightened are simply schizophrenic people?

See the attached scientific article for more on that.

I would like to hear your opinions and experiences.

AttachmentSize
Schizophrenia and lose of identity.pdf701.46 KB


carlito santo's picture

How to differentiate

You sometimes encounter those who proclaim they are enlightened while by the quality of their behavior you suspect that they simply have similar symptoms but they are schizophrenic or have some other mental problem.

The way one can tell whether he himself or someone else is enlightened or schizophrenic is by the behavior and words. Is the man full of love and compassion or argumentative and polemic? Is he still and peaceful or vocal and hectic? Does he base his views on the heart and transcendental realizations or is he still based in mind and logic?

It's not difficult to tell this, they are so different in their behavior.

carlito santo | Sat, 10/10/2009 - 21:36
genep's picture

Telling the Difference

"It's not difficult to tell this, they are so different in their behavior."
-- THIS IS BECAUSE
there IS ABSOLUTELY Noooooooooo DIFFERENCE.

exactly like Physics tells us:
ALL DIFFERENCES are in the mind of the Observer -- NEVER/EVER in the Observation.
=-=
to the academic experts of his time Buddha was a raving maniac,
to the Jews and Romans Jesus was a raving lunatic,
to the Germans Hitler was a Savior to the Jews he was the devil.

History thus tells us exactly what Physics tells: Buddha, Jesus and Hitler never determined who they were: the OBSERVER did/does.

-- really, Really, REALLY.

genep | Sun, 10/11/2009 - 00:18
abra's picture

Great difference

Leave the cultural and religious biases aside. Of course when you are biased the differences you see are affected. This is true for everything and therefor does not say much.

If you happen to meet face to face a person suffering from schyzophhrenia and an enlightened person, you will see and moreover feel the great difference. Both do not have a sense of identity and self but their conduct, surrounding energy and level of peacefulness are in the opposites.

It is only that there are several symptoms common to these people that sometimes confuses, especially the person himself, especially if he tends to be delirious or manic.

abra | Sun, 10/11/2009 - 08:44
MBFT's picture

I Doubt

They could be the same. Why would any of us assume to know for certain?

For all these realities, all these infinite possibilities to assume we know anything at all, ANYTHING is false.

Is there an energy you want to feel? Is there another you may not be sensitive enough to notice? Is what seems chaotic to the everyday more structure and more phenomenal than you've been trained to give credit for?

Those familiar with the tarot card, The Tower. I wish upon us, all, me, I, we, them, they, self, to feel this catastrophic rip in your reality. Everyone is afraid of it, but I pray for it everyday, it is the only thing I pray for. When The Tower falls all your bonds will be broken. If you can not feel it, if you drown you'll be crushed by it and death will be your reward. The reward to a real birth anew.

It will not happen if you do not invite into yourself. It will not happen if you are attached to yourself and your named. It has started for me, and no matter how much I want it I fear I'll be nothing once it has passed. And exactly nothing is it's gift.

There are no gurus, no one can lead you.

MBFT | Tue, 02/15/2011 - 10:24
nancy pro's picture

I conclude from your answer

I conclude from your answer that you have never met a truly enlightened person.

When you meet an enlightened person you will not doubt the difference anymore. There is some other flawless quality beyong charisma and knowledge. Something very clear in the energy. You will not miss the great difference between a mental ill and a realized one.

Start to trust your instincts because of the simple reason: you have nothing else to trust. You rely on your instincts in anything and suddenly when it comes to the issue of enlightenement you become not sure. This is funny because this approach of "you can never know" is the result of campaigns of devotees of false gurus for so many years. Do not buy it.

nancy pro | Tue, 02/15/2011 - 19:49
MBFT's picture

Not what it seems......

I said what I did because I've traveled the world and felt many energies. I've traveled what I consider "other worlds" but it's not for me to taught nor rationalize them.

My point was not that I had never met one, but that I feel that energy exists in everyone and everything. I've never known a "Guru" but been around plenty of people with and energy of enlightenment that left you feeling healed, open, aware, and loved.

I just do not believe in "The Guru". Anyone I find can in a moment, a flash be a light for the spirit in darkness. To choose seems selfish or damning in a way.

Maybe a schizophrenic person is different, as if they've seen what you may call the way but were shattered by it- but in this world I know things are too great and broad to know certainty. That is the nature of this plane of existence, it fools you into thinking there are certainties when in fact there are none.

You are your own Guru.

MBFT | Sun, 02/20/2011 - 10:33
MBFT's picture

I Doubt

They could be the same. Why would any of us assume to know for certain?

For all these realities, all these infinite possibilities to assume we know anything at all, ANYTHING is false.

Is there an energy you want to feel? Is there another you may not be sensitive enough to notice? Is what seems chaotic to the everyday more structure and more phenomenal than you've been trained to give credit for?

Those familiar with the tarot card, The Tower. I wish upon us, all, me, I, we, them, they, self, to feel this catastrophic rip in your reality. Everyone is afraid of it, but I pray for it everyday, it is the only thing I pray for. When The Tower falls all your bonds will be broken. If you can not feel it, if you drown you'll be crushed by it and death will be your reward. The reward to a real birth anew.

It will not happen if you do not invite into yourself. It will not happen if you are attached to yourself and your named. It has started for me, and no matter how much I want it I fear I'll be nothing once it has passed. And exactly nothing is it's gift.

There are no gurus, no one can lead you.

MBFT | Tue, 02/15/2011 - 10:24
Mak's picture

If you do not know this is awakening, you may not be loving...

What if spiritual awakening starts for somebody who have no idea about spirituality and do not even in having a soul. This person will not be prepared for new perception and will have no idea what is happening. It would be very difficult to stay calm and loving for one. It may be scary, if you do not know what and why is happening. If this person will not become a bit educated spiritually, he/shy may end taking drugs for schizophrenia. These drugs have side effects, which may stop this person from discovering real reason of ones experiences.

Mak

Mak | Sun, 10/23/2011 - 23:42
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

Spirituality Reveals Itself!

Spirituality will always make itself known to the receiver although they may not know anything about it. I didn't know what was happening when I became "newly conceived" but what was happening caused a changed mentality. I had been religious and returned to the Christian church but my scriptural study revealed something other than church's doctrines.

When it came time for me to be "reborn" by leaving my job I readily gave it up without knowing what to do although I had gone on a faith mission for 3 weeks and found myself living on the streets, I didn't know how to begin. Spirituality directed me in my babyhood for 2 months then led me to crawl away from my wife, autos, and apartment I had furnished to began the wandering life.

Once in that life I began to question my actions but the experiences I had gone through was enough to keep me sane. When I began to face the second cold winter I wondered about my sanity but reasoned with my experiences and was sustained.

At every questioning time there was always something to sustain me, so spirituality will not leave one without something to keep them from taking drugs or other substances, has been my experiences for my 38 years from the beginning of my spiritual life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--Elijah "NatureBoy"-- Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @
http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm

Elijah_NatureBoy | Mon, 10/24/2011 - 01:27
sdaudio2's picture

Re:Schizophrenia

Ramana Maharshi became self realized at the age of 17...it happened quite spontaneously and without preparation...all paths lead to the same place according to practicing medicine man Gary Gent...when asked to describe what his inner life/experiences are like he said that others would say that he is schizophrenic... as a shaman/medicine man has one foot planted here and the other in/on another plane and must function within a state of impeccable balance in all aspects of his life.

sdaudio2 | Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:46
johnd's picture

The importance of differentiating between these two cases

The importance of differentiating between these two cases is first of all the wellbeing of these people. That those who have mental problems will take care of themselves instead of running away in false pretense of some advanced spiritual state and that those rare ones who really experienced spontaneous awakening will not get into panic (e.g. the case of Susan Seagal).

johnd | Tue, 10/13/2009 - 10:48
enlight | Sat, 10/10/2009 - 21:50
genep's picture

Mental Disorders

ALL mental disorders
-- from the depths of depression to the limits of raging mania, even drugs ...
ALL mental disorders
by definition
define Spirit, Kundalini, alias Samadhi manifesting itself to thoughts, Reality.

And this makes the likes of "masts,” street-people, derelicts and even psychopathic killers
far closer to so-called Self-Realization
than all the experts in universities can possibly imagine
– indeed far closer to Realization than even Buddha, Jesus... and Ramana could have imagined.

-- really, Really, REALLY.

genep | Sat, 10/10/2009 - 23:49
RandomStu's picture

Names

If we're thirsty, we can drink water. Whether we call it "water" or "eau" or "H-two-O" doesn't matter.

If someone, say, hears voices that no one else hears, and cannot distinguish the voices in their head from what those around him actually say, we may call him schitz, or we may call him spiritually advanced. What we name it doesn't change the experience. If the person is suffering, then we look for ways to alleviate the suffering; these don't necessarily have much to do with how we name the condition.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/booboo.htm

RandomStu | Sun, 10/11/2009 - 23:07
mika's picture

Valid or not that is the interesting question

With all due respect, from the perspective of this discussion the personal experience is less important and more interesting is the validity.

Dismissing the issue of the validity may imply that you don't really believe that there is something metaphisical beyond the input of the sens and mind and this something, if exists (and most probably exist) is the interesting stuff not the mediated information as is.

mika | Fri, 02/19/2010 - 11:29
joejo's picture

Vast Difference

Well, there is vast difference between the two and i have tried to explain it in my blog. In the saint the pure mind is the cause of perception & the imaginative ( subconscious) mind is merely a receptor whereas in the patient the cause of distortion is the ego or mind much like in our case albeit a little more exaggerated ( distortion).

http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/true-mirror

joejo | Sat, 02/20/2010 - 07:16
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

I Was Diagnosed In Error!

During the 1960s I went into the military with the intent of making a career of it. However, after almost 5 years I was diagnosed Schizophrenia because, knowingly, I would follow rules and break them. Therefore I was discharged honorable under medical conditions.

From early childhood, about nine months for the first time, I have heard external voices. That first time it told me after crying for someone to get me out of the rails up baby bed, "you may as well be content, no one is coming to get you". I did become content and stop crying. From then on, I have been very self assured, a reasoner, questioner and violator of the rules with awareness.

Through my many experiences [Google Elijah natureboy and read THE BOOK OF ELIJAH: A LETTER TO THE WORLD for many more] reasoned as to why, I have found many answers to life most people will not obtain or accept. Is that enlightenment? Is it an advanced spiritual state? I do not know but it makes me far more peaceful than most, very content and self assured, content in being alone and in a perpetual state of joy.

I do, however, demonstrate almost every characteristic I see in others around me but without emotion. I can use either of them at the drop of a pin and cut it off just s quickly without remorse and still be at peace and joyous. I have no love nor hate for anyone, I am indifferent, commonly called unconditional love, to all of earth and its living beings.

Most observers will call me "schizo" if they do not talk with me. Many people seeing me are afraid of me unless they look me in the eyes and see them clear. What I have to say is, "call me whatever you choose, I AM".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "NatureBoy"--

Elijah_NatureBoy | Tue, 02/23/2010 - 22:01
RAJAvsraj's picture

why cannot we claim as mental disorder what guru says so openly

why cannot we claim as mental disorder what guru says so openly. gurus claim that they talk with liberated souls with will and they have the blessing. How can we establish that they have such power. my guru shri chariji, i say him as black magician, because he misutilizes the powers, unfortunately i cannot provide evidence, says every liberated soul is eulogizing him and they are even published even though at higher cost are availble. can you say it is as mental disorder. So when some one say some thing wrong every one should treat as genuiely and if they have powers should try to get to the problem, instead of just saying it is mental disorder. visit srcm.org and observe his comments he says disciples should be dogs of master and etc etc. if they dont follow then he starts his famous black magic tricks.

RAJAvsraj | Sun, 07/11/2010 - 05:49
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

The Reality!

The reality, the higher the spiritual state or enlightened the more every known attribute of man can be recognized in the person, however, there's a difference between enlightenment and perpetrators. Only on rare occasions will most attributes be apparent in the actual enlightened while the perpetrators will continue to demonstrate many as a pretense of enlightenment.

The one I use daily, here in the USA, is only one because a near nude appearance is not common here as in India and other eastern nations and is used as my attention getter. Some few times I feel the need to use one to attract and aid a particular individual but I generally keep them in balance with each other all other times.

There are no positive nor negativity to any attribute, they existence's magnifying different attributes to benefit those destined to become enlighten and survive the end of civilization, at this time. It's definitely the social conditioning to shun differences with the greatest difference the more to be shunned and degraded.

It is true, the suffering of any person with any "so called" mental state as an incarnation's requirement, is due to societal denunciation of their way of being. But, that is also a Karmic requirement of being "so called" abnormal.

Your last question is answered in my first paragraph, yes, there are those who perpetrate being enlightened who are nothing but schizophrenics.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "The NatureBoy"--

Elijah_NatureBoy | Sun, 07/11/2010 - 13:14
genep's picture

schizophrenics

Schizophrenics hallucinate, they are divorced from reality: ie they are derealized. This deralization is spirituality's “realization.”
Krishna, Arjuna, Buddha, Christ...especially Papagi, Ramana … EACH ONE OF THEM had visions, they hallucinated – they were ALL divorced from religion's, science's reality … so by organized medicine's definition they were all Schizophrenic.

If one schizophrenic is insane while another is enlightened … then History is screaming that the most extreme schizophrenic is always the most enlightened.
Really, Really; REALLY.

genep | Sun, 07/11/2010 - 15:18
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

Material for Spiritual Realities!

There are many material realities falsifying every spiritual one. Every concept known on the physical plane has a spiritual counterpart, however, there are many more material representations seen than spiritual ones. For every true sage there will be many perpetrating them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "NatureBoy"--

Elijah_NatureBoy | Sun, 07/11/2010 - 23:33
11eleven's picture

REALITY?

tell me what is THE definition of and or your perception of reality?
Im under the impression we create our own reality-
im just sayin

11eleven | Mon, 04/04/2011 - 05:06
Mr S's picture

Schizophrenia And Paranormal Experience

Dear Guru's Feet, I am in the position of having had both schizophrenic symptoms and spiritual awakening, and I wished to comment here to state that both conditions can exist alongside each other. In the first place, this is a difficult position for myself, confusing for my family, and frustrating to my pyschiatrist! The doctor describes me as psychotic because I believe in the 'sixth sense', my family don't know what to believe because I have been delusional and am also talking about hearing my deceased father often (there's the paranormal bit), and I am left writing about this sort of thing here to nudge the world on a bit in the right direction! In the old days I had frightening hallucinations and persistent delusions of grandeur, but these left after a while and with antipsychotic medication. I agree that you can tell the borderline between psychotic and psychic by paying close attention to what someone says (and the way they behave) - for example many people may believe that they are an incarnated angel (look it up), but if you believe you are incarnated archangel, there is a consensus that that is impossible, and you may have gone too far or be hallucinating (sorry, this is on my mind because I met someone with these beliefs just recently). OK, Thanks Guru's Feet, I hope this has been useful, With best wishes, Mr S

Mr S | Wed, 07/21/2010 - 14:58
omsairam's picture

schizophrenia is a state in

schizophrenia is a state in which the boundary between our ego and the outer world becomes vanish..
person sees himself as the world and world into himself,i think its very possiblae AFTER a spritual experience,when alll the boundaries defined by our ego are(due to any reason may it be forcibly or selfly)are destroyed TOTALLY.
may be god has planned the ego to be destroyed in this manner only..who can say!!
"MA TRIPURSUNDARI"

omsairam | Wed, 10/13/2010 - 16:47
Gayatri_shiva's picture

Hi The Guru is IN YOU

The GURU is IN You..you don't have to go searching for the Guru outside..look inside and your Inner GURU will propel the Outer Guru to come to you. You don't have to search and when the student is ready the MASTER will surely appear whether u like it or not..the Guru need not be physical one He can guide you in your dreams and meet you in the astral and do the same work.

Gayatri_shiva | Sat, 07/30/2011 - 16:39
suzame's picture

Problematic and insufficient

This simplistic claim proves to be insufficient as currently you are identified with the mind and the mind will be selective in listening and adhering to that inner voice. There is a need for an external living guru to counter the tricks of the mind.

The claim you mention is usually used by people whose ego is afraid of an external human authority. Work on that issue and don't be afraid to be helped by an external human guru. Otherwise you will remain in your present state, interpreting and filtering the inner guru forever.

For more regarding this see http://www.gurusfeet.com/forum/living-guru-necessary

suzame | Sun, 07/31/2011 - 03:56
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

I didn't Experience That!

That wasn't anything I experienced, there was my inner guide which sustained me, questioned me to make me find my understanding. My speaking is from experience of having been transformed from a materialistic person into a spiritual one. Go to my site below, the contents is on the left side of it, and read THE BOOK OF ELIJAH: A LETTER TO THE WORLD, my life's story and you will see Ive experienced spirituality without an outside guide or guru.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--Elijah "NatureBoy"-- Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @
http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm

Elijah_NatureBoy | Mon, 10/24/2011 - 01:37
andyfromtassie's picture

Interesting interview about mental illness and the spiritual

Dr. Gersten practices integrative psychiatry and nutritional medicine out of his office in Encinitas, California. In this interview we discuss his book Are You Getting Enlightened Or Losing Your Mind? A Psychiatrist’s Guide for Mastering Paranormal and Spiritual Experience.

Dr. Gersten writes from his personal experience, his work with patients, and the wisdom of the ages. He is the author of The POW Survival Guide (dedicated to the Allied Troops of Operation Desert Storm), mental imagery consultant to Rodale Press on 18 books, columnist on Alternative Medicine for The Life Connection, publisher of Atlantis the Imagery Newsletter, and author of more than 300 published articles. He has consulted to the White House on alternative medicine. Dr. Gersten is also an accomplished musician and composer of 2200 songs and 7 symphonic works. Being half doctor/healer and half artist/musician allows him to bring a wide breadth of experience to his work with patients. While psychiatry tends to focus on what’s wrong, Dr. Gersten strives to place as much emphasis on “what’s right,” helping through his clinical work, personal experience, and writings, to help people deepen their spiritual connection, find their purpose or mission and remove the obstacles to their dreams.

He has worked in most aspects of psychiatry, from suicidal, homicidal, and psychotic hospitalized patients…to out-patient strategic psychotherapy…to state psychiatric hospitals…to peak performance, training LPGA and high level amateur golfers in the mental game. His expertise in mental imagery has created the possibility to help people beyond the scope of traditional psychiatry.

http://batgap.com/david-gersten-m-d/

andyfromtassie | Mon, 05/20/2013 - 13:19
morgan123's picture

I think that very often

I think that very often people with higher spiritual state (advanced) are being inhibited their state by being given drugs such as anti schizophrenia drugs because humans wants to see them exactly as the others...

morgan123 | Wed, 01/11/2017 - 18:15
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

I Believe You Are Correct

Morgan,
I am quite sure you are correct, the more I observe children appearing spiritual being taken over especially by the US government and drugged beyond being recognized as man, I have to agree with you.

--Elijah "NatureBoy"--
Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @
http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm

Elijah_NatureBoy | Wed, 01/11/2017 - 19:18