Years of hard work, meditations, retreats, struggles with myself... I'm a bit fed up... I want enlightenment... at least a glimpse... something...
Metaphysical predictions for 2012 from wikipedia and others (forum)
2012 is claimed to be a great year of spiritual transformation (or apo...
Ramana Maharshi (guru)
Sri Ramana Maharshi was born on December 30, 1879 in a village called ...
Osho (guru)
Osho was born Chandra Mohan Jain (चन्द्र मोहन ज...
A Deception called Form (blog)
Preparation
Does the hole in the ground filled again with sand st...
Paramahamsa Nithyananda (guru)
Before Enter into Biography
Autobiography of living englighten maste...
Dangeous pitfall: accept, observe but do not dwell (blog)
Maybe the top spiritual practice is to observe and accept what is.
...
Breathing-based reality check technique (blog)
Time is a concept. It does not exist out of the boundaries of the conc...
Same same but different (blog)
Anyone who ever traveled in India is familiar with the phrase "same sa...
If resistance is the cause of suffering then why were given it as an instinctive reaction tool? (blog)
People are asking me: if resistance to pain is the cause of our suffer...
Just don't (blog)
I (the body, the mind, the person) am not enlightened. That which I le...
"If we have been able to give happiness to a soul-even for a minute-it makes our life blessed." —Amma
abandon effort and desire
you are in th right direction!
First, it's time to abandon effort, the effort you say you are fed up with. Effort was appropriate for the beginning. Now it is only an obstacle, effort means conflict (otherwise you wouldn't have needed any effort) and conflict breeds the mind.
Then, abandon all desire and especially the trickiest one of all: the spiritual desire, the desire for enlightenment which is yet another type of desire...
Then see what happen...
DESIRE AND EFFORT CANNOT BE ABANDONED
Santthosh
WHO OR WHAT HAS TO ABANDON DESIRE WHETHER IT IS BODY OR THE MIND. THE DESIRE IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE OR MIND.
EVERYONE HAS TO MAKE EFFORT ON PHYSICAL PLANE TO ACQUIRE WISDOM TO REALIZE THE EFFORTLESS STATE. THE DESIRE OR INTENSE URGE ONLY THE SEED WHICH TAKES THE SEEKER TO THE CORE. IF ONE ABANDON HIS DESIRE THEN THERE IS NO USE OF FORGING HEAD WITH INQUIRY.
SINCE EVERY SEEKER HAS HIS OWN VIEWS AND EXPRESSES HIS EXPERIENCES BUT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE THROUGHLY VERIFIED BEFORE ACCEPTING OTHERS VIEWS.
THE ULTIMATE TRUTH CANNOT BE CONTRADICTED.
Cease! Be still...
Obviously, all the hard work has not done what it was supposed to do. So cease making all efforts and just be still.
Who is it that is fed up and wants enlightenment?
(likely answer - well, I am. - onto question 2)
Who are you?
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen
http://www.awaken2life.org
Who Am I?
And don't try to answer the question intellectually (e.g. I, John, a lawyer, 40 years old etc.) but just follow the sense of I the question evokes...
THE JOURNEY FROM WHO AM I TO WHAT IS 'I'
Santthosh
HI SOLO
Who am 'I' is the for the beginners. WHO AM 'I' is a great gift to the spiritual world by Maharshi Ramana to the spiritual world. But years of hard practice the doubts and confusion start propping up. Those doubts and confusion are very important and it is the results of the fruits of your inquiry. Those doubts are a signal to say something is wrong somewhere seeker has to remove the obstacle and forge a head. Thank Raman for creating a doubt and leading the seekers to this point.
The real journey starts when seeker becomes aware of the fact if 'I' am not the physical body then the inquiry must end there. There is no use of saying I am not the sense, I am not the mind 'I' am not this I am not that etc. BECAUSE WITHOUT THE PHYSICAL BODY NEITHER THE EGO NOR ANY EXPERIENCE CAN PREVAIL. BUT IT IS NOT EMPTINESS BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING REMAINS TO SAY IT IS EMPTY.
The seekers like Paul Brunton rectified the inquiry after consulting the great Advith master of those days Sri, V.S Ayer to WHAT AM 'I'. But even what am 'I' takes halfway. Then seeker has to start on his own research. He has to forge a head to What is 'I' which will take him to the core.
SEEKER BECOMES AWARE OF THE FACT THAT 'I' IS NOT THE SELF BUT 'I' IS THE WHOLE HUMAN EXPERIENCE WHICH IS MIND. THE INVISIBLE SUBSTANCE AND WITNESS OF THE 'I' IS THE TRUE SELF WHICH IS SPIRIT. TO KNOW MORE ABOUT IT FORMLESS SPIRITUALITY IS THE ONLY TOOL. YOUR OBSERVATION THAT INTELLECTUAL ANSWERS OF NOT OF ANY USE IS CORRECT. INTELLECTUALITY IS OF NO USE IN THE FIELD OF TRUTH SEEKING OR SPIRITUALITY. SEEKER HAS TO HAVE COURAGE TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH AND REJECT THE UNTRUTH. SEEKER SHOULD NOT BECOME INTELLECTUAL STAGNATION.
PLEASE FORGE A HEAD BY REMOVING ALL THE OBSTACLES AND FATTER ON THE WAY YOU BECOME AWARE OF THE FACT 'I' WHICH IS WHOLE HUMAN EXPERIENCE IS MERE ILLUSION ON THE STANDPOINT OF TRUE SELF WHICH SPIRIT.
WITH RESPECT AND REGARDS
SANTHOSH
STILLNESS IS NATURE OF THE TRUE SELF.
Santthosh
Hi Eric,
ONE CANNOT BE STILL AS A PERSON. IT IS FOOLISH VENTURE TRYING TO STILL WITHOUT MAKING EFFORT. EFFORT IS NEEDED BUT NOT PHYSICAL BUT MENTAL THROUGH INQUIRY AND REASONING. JUST BEING STILL IS OF NO USE. HOW LONG ONE CAN REMAIN STILL AS A PERSON. SO ACHIEVE REAL STILLNESS ONE HAS TO INQUIRE INTO NATURE OF THE MIND NOT REMAINING STILL AS A PERSON WITHOUT ACTION. STILLNESS IS THE NATURE OF THE SELF. IMITATING STILLNESS AS PERSON WILL NOT YIELD ANY RESULT.
WITH RESPECT AND REGARDS
SANTTHOSH.
Enlightenment or Endarkenment?
First of all, I believe, for what you are wanting to obtain you are using the incorrect term. When we look at the definitions of dark [the presences of all colors] and light [the absences of all colors] "Enlightenment" would be ignorance because it would represent "the absences of all knowledge and comprehension". "Endarkenment", then, would represent "the presences of all knowledge and comprehension" and is the term to fit what I believe you mean. Because you will have integrated the positive and negative you illuminates, sheds comprehension of the subject for those with eyes of the mind to see.
Second, to obtain knowledge one has to explore the unknown. One must observe the differences in similar situations participated in, then reason with the outcomes. Next one has to integrate the knowledge and comprehension of those findings with the knowledge and comprehension already obtained.
Yeshua ha'meshiach (Jesus the christ) made two profound statements seldom given full reasoning. The first was "to become as a small child" and, second, "go you into all the world... teaching others to observe all things you have... [I paraphrased]".
A small child is always exploring [until punished and rewarded into not doing it]. The reason is observation, participation and reason are the building blocks of comprehension. "Man" means "mind able to comprehend all things" so the exploration of the unknown is our nature.
That is why he went on to tell us to constantly
explore unknowns and teach others what and how we have observed them. While communicating your findings to others, you will receive pros and cons pertaining to your reasonings. You then take those concepts into meditation [while traveling to another destination] and integrate what appears to be reasonable. Once you have made your conclusion you share it. This you do until no new pros and cons seems to appear for you to consider that as the absolute [although it still may change later, as other things are in incorporated into it].
That has been my experiences.
Elijah "NatureBoy"
If I have caused you to question your beliefs I have accomplished my mission. Now, reason the differences in our concepts and reason that until you have reasoned all pros and cons concerning your new revelation.
Nothing is so
Hi Elijah
Actually, ignorance is false knowledge. Enlightenment is, as you say, the absence of all mental knowledge. This is the goal; to realize that all your concepts, beliefs and knowledge are ultimately false and serve to act as constricting limiters on Beingness. The human is, in a sense, a subset of Beingness imprisoned within his own conceptual notions of what is so.
If what you truly are is the source of knowledge, then you are prior to all knowledge. To know your Self, then, requires no knowledge at all. The entirety of the spiritual path is about noticing what is NOT so. In the realization that nothing is so, where are the boundaries of Self?
All Is So
True, ignorance is missing [false] knowledge and enlightenment is the absence of comprehensible knowledge; endarkenment is the presence of comprehensible knowledge.
Incomprehensible knowledge is knowledge based on illusions like love and hate, pretty and ugly, good and evil, and other judged into being concepts. It is incomprehensible because there is nothing the physical senses are able to recognize.
Comprehensible knowledge is knowledge having physical characteristics recognizable by the physical senses.
When one is in the "no knowledge at all" they are as a baby being born, they may be able to manifest what is termed "miracles" but they do not comprehend how they are done. When one comes into the "all knowledge" stage they manifest those so called miracles but with the comprehension of how they are able to do them. In between those 2 manifestations man go through a multitude of learning experiences to bring us out of the "no knowledge" stage and into the "all comprehending" stage.
Elijah "NatureBoy"
If I have caused you to question your beliefs I have accomplished my mission. Now, reason the differences in our concepts and reason that until you have reasoned all pros and cons concerning your new revelation.
All is nothing
Any comprehension is the comprehension of mind's illusory knowledge, which is wonderful in the context of operating within the illusion, but may become an obstruction to the realization of Truth, which is devoid of anything to be comprehended.
I'm not sure what the "all comprehending" stage is, or if it's something anyone ever accomplishes, and if they do, I'm not sure there's any spiritual value in it. If by chance what you mean is realization or apperception, then that's a different matter.
ALL IS
I disagree. The only illusory knowledge is that which is judged. Only when one is living in a state judging everything are they living in the illusory state. When objects and events are determined by sense perception without judging them they are living in the IT IS state or state where they are able to come into "all knowing".
To know is to experience and experience is a three part act, observation, participation and reason. We must first observe that it is, then we interact with it determining its various differences, and finally reason with the differences recognized to determine purpose and usage.
The "all comprehending stage" is when one is able to manifest themselves as every physical manifestation it has been up to the point where they are. It is like the metaphor of the salt doll wanting to measure the depth of the ocean. It plunged in and broke into its smallest particles expanding the whole ocean, then it reunited itself in realization of the depth of the ocean and the nature of the ocean as well.
The "life-force mind combination" [ghost or energy] responsible for maintaining the zeroverse [universe it is usually called but only zero is a whole] has to permeate everything about the zeroverse in order to maintain its form and multiple internal forms. This is done until its duration is complete when it then discarnates and enter into one of the internal forms. Meanwhile, one of the internal form's ghost enters the zeroverse and remanifests it and all of it internal forms. Thus, when the "life-force mind combination" is the maintainer of the zeroverse it is in "the all comprehending stage".
[Read THE BOOK OF NATURE found in my revelation on my blog.]
Elijah "NatureBoy"
If I have caused you to question your beliefs I have accomplished my mission. Now, reason the differences in our concepts and reason that until you have reasoned all pros and cons concerning your new revelation.
Nothing is
"All you see and seem is but a dream within a dream"
E.A.Poe
Experience is a dream; stories within stories; conceptual/perceptual inventions of mind that mean nothing more than what you take them to mean. It's not possible to examine the dream of experience and find something that is not a dream experience, just as in your nightly dreams. Within the dream, we can create infinite mind states, just as the egoic state is a mind state. It says nothing about what is Truth and what is not.
Yes, experiences can be very powerful, and they may, though in this case not so much, point to Truth, but they are not Truth.Truth is a timeless realization that leaves no tracks in the mind. It is not an experience. All experiences are objects of mind. The Truth of your Being is not an object; it is the Subject. You cannot perceive it, you cannot have knowledge of it, you can only Be it. Throw everything else away.
Phil
You don't have a choice.
You don't have a choice. Experience is the only tool you have, it is the only thing you can rely on, the only 1st-hand by definition (this is the meaning of "experience"), it is your microscope, your laboratory and your test tube. all other tools are mere 2nd-hand and thus from your perspective theories.
That which we call "truth" is just a concept, we cannot even imagine what it is, not even the tip of the toe of the foot of it and discussing it doesn't give much except of candies for the mind.
Experience is indeed not the best tool, it is sometimes deceptive (not necessarily always, depending on one's sincerity and advancement) but it is the only one so there is no room for being selective.
As long as you are within the dream, the tools at your disposal are those that are within the dream.
Dream tools
Regardless of how many tools you have available to you, you cannot rely on experience. You say that experience is the only tool but is not the best tool, which is a bit confusing. I'm guessing you mean to say there's nothing on which you can really rely, but it's worth questioning if there is such a thing as self evident Truth, as many say there is. Are they also deceived? If not, then this is something that can be relied on.
Maybe the focus should be on the notion of tools. The assumption is that you are an individual, volitional tool weilder that doesn't have effective tools. Can you find a perspective from which that whole ideas looks absurd?
"As long as you are within the dream, the tools at your disposal are those that are within the dream."
Ahhh, but You are not within the dream.......are You? Isn't that the whole point?
Phil
Timeless doesn't exist
Time is the measurement of cycles which is the cause of most illusions. Truth is the recognition of the cycles and all of its events happening during the cycle.
Your "You cannot perceive it, you cannot have knowledge of it, you can only Be it. Throw everything else away." has to be a misreresentation of what you wanted to say. If that were true you would not even be disccussing, you would not be interacting with anyone nor anything, you wopuld be like the phoenix, just sitting and doing nothing until it is time to burn yourself up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elijah "NatureBoy"--If I have caused you to question your beliefs I have accomplished my mission. Now, reason the differences in our concepts until you have reasoned all pros and cons integrated.
Okay but......no.
"Time is the measurement of cycles which is the cause of most illusions. Truth is the recognition of the cycles and all of its events happening during the cycle."
Gnaw, not really so much, actually.
"Your "You cannot perceive it, you cannot have knowledge of it, you can only Be it. Throw everything else away." has to be a misreresentation of what you wanted to say."
No, that's what I wanted to say.
Elijah, urgent!
Elijah dear,
A few comments regarding your footer, seriously:
"If I have caused you to question your beliefs I have accomplished my mission."
Sorry but no, you didn't accomplish your mission. By the above statement your EGO has accomplished its mission, not you.
To really accomplish your mission, it should be "If I have caused MYSELF to question MY beliefs I have accomplished my mission."
"Now, reason the differences in our concepts until you have reasoned all pros and cons integrated."
Reasoning differences, pros,cons or whatever is only games the mind plays for its amusement and self gratification. From some relatively early point, reasoning can not yield any substantial fruits. On the contrary, it just introduces more thinking, more intellect, more mind. Go beyond concepts, pros, cons, debates, theories, ideas, doctrines, beliefs. Just be and observe and accept whatever is. It is called meditation and it is much more powerful than words. That's what I am rushing now to do.
Ouch!
Oops! You just stepped on Elijah's footer. Hehe.
Serially, though, I agree, it's that footer that took me out of conversational mode as it implies no oppeness to question his own beliefs.
I like this a lot:
"If I have caused MYSELF to question MY beliefs I have accomplished my mission."
Truly, I didn't mean to step on his foot
Truly, I didn't mean to step on his foot. I hope he doesn't get it this way.
I truly meant for his own good. I'm sure he didn't mean to express arrogance or superiority, it is just his mind playing convenient tricks to block change as our minds play other types of tricks for the same purpose.
The footer expresses an attitude that leads nowhere even if he happened to have some exclusive and mysterious access to truth through words and concepts.
As someone once said: "we commit errors until the last minute, otherwise the last minute would have been one minute before." This is the nature of the seeking and the path and so in order to make sure we always find our errors, we must be extremely open and extremely alert regarding our current beliefs.
Yes, I could see the
Yes, I could see the motivation, and I agree it would be useful for our friend to take a look at. I was really just teasing. :)
It seems that experience is
It seems that experience is all it's about. Without experience there is no duality, without duality there is no experience. Creation creating. Many spiritualists seem to fight experience as though it were something seperate from what they are. Isn't it interesting? Hi Marie.
Those durn separatists!
What "Many spiritualists"? Maybe the ones who are separate from what you are? Okay, okay, just teasing. :)~
Phil
Zackly, I have created you
Zackly, I have created you to teach myself I'm not seperate, hehe
Uh, oh.
Well, whatever you do, don't stop!
::::suddenly feeling existential crisis::::
enlightenment
what you think about enlightenment.
all your thoughts about it are only your creation, creation of your mind.
enlightenment comes at tis own and one has to wait for it without any efforts, but yes you have to be prepared for it.
and rest for glimps, yes it is possible.
I agree...
She's looking for a dream of her own making, called 'enlightenment' ;-).
People often come up with some mental idea about it, which is guaranteed only one thing: If enlightenment exists, it will be nothing like you can conceptualize. Really, nothing is like we imagine it; reality lies in the unexpected, unanticipated, unknown.
http://www.omkaradatta.info
Maybe you are not going about it correctly
I see a lot of advice about how you should be effortless and drop everything etc. As this advice is given with much authority I wonder how many have actually had any results using it themselves. We are talking here about enligtenment of course.
Maybe the Zen master knew sumthin when he said that you would surely attain enlightenment if you dropped everything and spent a week on this matter as if your life depended on it. Single pointedness and earnestness is always the key.
I can't really figure out
I can't really figure out who you're responding to, but I'll answer from my perspective as a general statement on the topic. I never tell anybody to drop everything since picking up has happened and dropping is just another split-mind ego game, and that's what needs to be looked at. Not dismissed, but actually pondered, meditated, intuited, contemplated, clarified. It's silly to be so terrified of our own minds that you don't dare use them. Expand it, deepen it, open to something beyond it, but don't go to sleep because you're afraid of it.
By all means...
If somebody wants to drop everything... drop. The key is to go your own way on the spiritual path, and as soon as possible, although not avoiding suggestions/input from others. The truth is 'pathless', in that your way will be completely unique for you, created from scratch as you go along. I agree too that single-pointedness and earnestness are critical.
P.S. of course, if you drop everything for a week and then pick it all up again, you merely had a nice vacation ;-).
http://www.omkaradatta.info