Your prison cell is empty

Phroggy's picture



Average: 4.7 (3 votes)

The difficulty is that the thingy that wants to cause freedom is the thingy that's standing in the way of freedom. That which wants to be free doesn't exist in the first place and so can never be free. Since you are not the person, no person gets liberated. Since you are Awareness, and Awareness is already freedom itself, Awareness does not get freedom either, and so we can't really even say that Awareness becomes free of the person.

Oddly, it's just a false notion of personhood that happens till it doesn't anymore. The belief in the prisoner simply ends, and along with that, the suffering implied in that belief. The experience continues, but there is nobody experiencing.

Hencely, all efforts to bring about Self Realization are futile. Thoughts are arising spontaneously and nobody is causing them, and so the belief that they can be controlled is based on the false assumption that there is a controller standing apart from the thoughts themselves. Isn't the thought to control,one of the thoughts that needs to be controlled? Within these spontaneous thoughts, an imagined person forms who stands at the doorway and waits for the next thought to come through. It can't know there is a thought until it is already present, and then it is too late. You may chase that thought around the block or you may not, depending on your conditioning, but you cannot prevent it without perpetually holding the thought in your mind that you are watching for the next thought. If this looks like a still mind to you, it is a delusion.

A still mind does not come about through any kind of control any more than surrender comes about through a choice. Mind becomes still when it no longer sees any point in running; when it's easier and makes more sense for it to just sit down and shut the hell up for a minute, and this is a matter of understanding. Surrender happens when it is seen clearly that the struggle is futile and self destructive, not when the imaginary person decides it's time to surrender because that's how it can get what it wants. Look back on the times that surrender happened and notice that there was no person involved to either accept or not accept; the person simply failed to show up on the battlefield. What would it take for you to miss your appointment with suffering?

Phil



sonti's picture

Vicious circle

The belief in the prisoner simply ends, and along with that, the suffering implied in that belief. The experience continues, but there is nobody experiencing.

The fact is that we know that but that belief and the suffering do not end.

The reason is that we do not know it, we heard about it, we heard that it is so from presumably sages, from presumably enlightened people, they are all presumably as we cannot enter into their psyche and verify if they are indeed what they are assumed to be and thus to trust them completely.

A problem. We need a verification but the verification is only after when we are there...

sonti | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 04:12
Phroggy's picture

Hi Sonti True nuff, and I'll

Hi Sonti

True nuff, and I'll take it even further. It can clearly be seen that there isn't a person here and nobody controlling anything. I no longer need to take anyone's word for it, and yet beyond the concepts we all know, I don't know what I am. I get used to not being a person and I don't care much about the identity that's clearly nothing more than a set of thoughts and it's odd being in a kind of limbo. There's still a fear of pain and suffering because there seems to be no way to avoid the experience. I wouldn't have guessed that could happen. I spose there must still be some doubt, which seems to be the nature of mind.

Phroggy | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 08:07
avi's picture

The prisoner jumps back from the window

"Hencely, all efforts to bring about Self Realization are futile."

This is incorrect, the same incorrectness as saying "all efforts to bring about Self Realization are effective."

It is neither.It is irrelevant. It is stated from the perspective of the very same person you are talking about.

It is the person in you, your mind that talks and makes this analysis. The prisoner you are talking about in the beginning took over later.

The efforts that you are talking about are not yours, you didn't make the decision to do them, you just claim ownership as you don't want to feel a prisoner who was not asked and thus was forced to do the effort.

avi | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 06:53
SriSriYogiBaba's picture

No prisoner, no window

So is "neither" and "irrelevant" stated from that perspective.
Perhaps not everyone has your problem with perspectives.

SriSriYogiBaba | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 06:56
avi's picture

perspectives

Maybe you meant "Perhaps not everyone is aware of the underlying perspectives" or maybe you didn't.

avi | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 09:34
SriSriYogiBaba's picture

Maybe

But it sounds like a friendlier way of putting it.
Apparently it's all just words anyway, so who cares?

SriSriYogiBaba | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 11:40
Phroggy's picture

The prisoner stands on his head.......

....and the world turns upside down.

Hi Avi

The effort is irrelevant for the same reason it's futile, and we both stated that reason: there's nobody making the effort. My perspective is that we agree, but if you prefer the perspective that we disagree, that's fine too.

Phroggy | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 07:43
avi's picture

I agree to agree

I agree to agree :-)

Anyway it's all about words...

avi | Fri, 08/22/2008 - 09:36
Omkaradatta's picture

Who's making the effort?

Here's something I posted recently on the NDS list (related to the topic of free will, but it applies here too):

"The 'I' could be said to be nothing but will. No present
existence at all, just desire for more future."

There is nobody making the effort, because the "me" is effort.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/26/2008 - 20:50
Omkaradatta's picture

...

...

Omkaradatta | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 05:57
genep's picture

Mind doing

"A still mind does not come about through any kind of control any more than surrender comes about through a choice. Mind becomes still when it no longer sees any point in running;..."
====================
great non-duality until deception takes over: " there is no control" is Self metaphorically talking. But when the Mind separates itself with " it no longer sees a point in running..." this is duality
the mind is thoughts ... thoughts cannot do anything, least of all run around ... least of all decide, control, to stop running around.

All words/thoughts are Self's fiction dream, Maya: but when the focus of writing is to destroy any duality that tries to surface in words, writing, -- then such writing is OBVIOUSLY the Self
---
and yes "there is no such thing as Realization
and yet
when nothing happens
so that reality loses its reality
it is Realization." -- O'no

gp

genep | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 14:43
dhorai's picture

their is better state than this!

search on sahaja yoga
u will get.

with love
dhorai.

dhorai | Wed, 08/05/2009 - 14:15