Traps and such

Phroggy's picture



Average: 4.7 (11 votes)

Hi folks. Been reading/posting for a while and I find you all to be an intelligent, sincere bunch, so I thought I'd give this blogulation a try.

I seem to be focussed on traps lately, to the extent that the entire spiritual 'search' begins to look like all traps all the time. Maybe it makes sense in that realizing Truth as such is not something mind/ego will ever accomplish but rather something that may occur when it has given up on the searching for what already is the case. The false beliefs in the person seem to be what stand in the way, and it's the person who imagines to be seeking, and so it's difficult to imagine that the person actually wants to find anything that doesn't include it. Perhaps we go on faith but we also clearly sabotage our search at the same time whether it's conscious or not, hence, the traps. Oddly, we want to know Truth but we're not so hot on letting go of the only delusion that stands in the way of that knowing.

So, the fist question that occurs is, do we really want to know a Truth that does not include us? Mayhaps the vast majority of seekers are actually just looking for a better dream, and Truth isn't even on the agenda.

Another trap is the notion that all we need to do is stop the seeking, and the Truth will be revealed. We've been seeking in one form or another since we were toddlers, and spiritual seeking is just a more focussed form, but ending the seeking in order to find is just another form of seeking, and so it hasn't ended at all. What it does is keep us from ever challenging ego's delusions, and so it becomes a trap.

Another is the notion that all we have to do is surrender. Surrender is a pointer, like ending the seeking. It describes what must happen, but it is not a prescription for bringing it about. Surrender is not a doing thing, but the absence of a doing, and mind cannot do a non-doing.

The notion that looking at ego is fruitless because ego doesn't exist is just using a concept that is not known to be so, to justify holding the egoic delusion in place.

The idea that we should not be looking to see whether or not something is futile because this is the insistence that something may be productive, is another self deception that comes from too much thinking, which can produce justifications for anything it resists.

I say, forget about Truth and let it take care of itself. It's already here and it's not hiding. Focus on something mind CAN know, the reality or falsehood of it's own conceptual beliefs about itself and it's reality.....Or is this another trap?

Phil



nancy pro's picture

The path of pitfalls

Hi Phil,

I agree with you so much. I feel that the spiritual path is merely a constant process of discovering the next pitfall set by the mind and then neutralizing it. And then when I suspect that there is no new next pitfall anymore, I discover yet another one, a trickier one, a new pitfall that sometimes actually has emerged directly from the neutralizing of the previous pitfall in some sophisticated way.

About surrender, my view is somehow different. The words and concepts depicting actions can easily mislead us (which is a common trap). Indeed, you cannot "do" but you can "not do", in other words, you can stop doing things your mind and conditionings are used to do automatically when you are unconscious which is to resist whatever is. This is surrender, stopping the mind's habit of resisting. Surrender is a word implying action, implying doing but when you practice it, you realize that it is the ceasing of doing.

Moreover, I found out over the years that the best careful policy to minimize traps is to focus on accepting and surrendering rather than on the various spiritual activities (e.g. meditations, retreats, and even charity).

nancy pro | Sat, 08/02/2008 - 22:52
Phroggy's picture

Surrender is present in your absence

Hi Nancy

I do agree that a focus on surrender, and paying close attention to where every struggle ultimately ends, is very helpful, but I still don't see it as something the mind can do, at least not directly.

The first question would be, can we in fact 'not do'? I'm going to assume what you mean by this is that when a thought arrives in conscious awareness, we can be aware of it and then stop the thought process. While this may be somewhat effective, is it surrender or is it the interference with the process of creating struggle?

You likely know what genuine surrender feels like, it's a sudden relaxation into a kind of spaciousness, and this spaciousness is the key to what's really going on. There was no solution, no negotiation, no resolution as such at all, just this open space that shows up. What has occurred in relation to this struggle is that 'you' got up and left the room. It's not a different relationship to the problem, it's no relationship at all. It's neither okay or not okay, it's just of no more significance because 'you' are no longer involved or attached. The battle lines were so clearly drawn one minute, and now there in nobody to engage the battle.

True surrender happens under only one condition....your absence. This is why mind can never bring it about.

Phil

Phroggy | Sun, 08/03/2008 - 00:39
nancy pro's picture

surrender in experience

Regarding "we can be aware of it and then stop the thought process." - no no no, we better not try to stop the thought process, it only provokes conflict. Surrender and acceptance mean to let this thought process go on but now I am observing it and so it is not influential anymore and at some point it will cease...

As to "You likely know what genuine surrender feels like, it's a sudden relaxation into a kind of spaciousness, and this spaciousness is the key to what's really going on. There was no solution, no negotiation, no resolution as such at all, just this open space that shows up." - so true!

"What has occurred in relation to this struggle is that 'you' got up and left the room." - I prefer to use the expression "I was minimized", I feel there are still parts of "I" present while surrendering, but all that is observed and excepted is truncated from the observing "I".

"True surrender happens under only one condition....your absence" - Based on my experience, absence is not a condition for true surrender,it is an outcome of true surrender.

nancy pro | Sun, 08/03/2008 - 06:42
Phroggy's picture

Caused or uncaused?

"Based on my experience, absence is not a condition for true surrender,it is an outcome of true surrender."

Yes, we see that differently. You see ego as the cause of surrender, I see it happening when ego does not form any relationship with the 'object' of struggle at all. Interesting. Thanks for your perspective.

Phil

Phroggy | Sun, 08/03/2008 - 08:49
joejo's picture

Thats Great

I read your post today and it was really great. Wish to hear more from you.

joejo | Thu, 02/11/2010 - 14:16
Omkaradatta's picture

Self-deceptions

"The idea that we should not be looking to see whether or not something is futile because this is the insistence that something may be productive, is another self deception that comes from too much thinking,"

You are a king wallowing in the mud, believing yourself to be a pig. If you must keep looking at 'yourself' (i.e. creating yourself in order to see yourself) then enjoy it, at least until it gets old and muddy enough. Then come on out, wash up and Live. No fake waterfalls or outdoor beds needed.

"Focus on something mind CAN know, the reality or falsehood of it's own conceptual beliefs about itself and it's reality.....Or is this another trap?"

As all concepts/ideas are false, it's a trap. Of what use are mind's ideas about mind's ideas? Recollect your Being, let all else go.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Mon, 08/04/2008 - 23:57
Phroggy's picture

More traps

"As all concepts/ideas are false, it's a trap."

It's not true that all concepts are false, though that particular one is. Hehe. That notion comes from the idea that no concept is absolute Truth, but Truth doesn't operate in the dualistic context of true/false, and so it doesn't follow that all concepts are false.

"Of what use are mind's ideas about mind's ideas?"

To reveal the falsity of mind's ideas. Is it false that you asked that question? Is the idea represented in the question false? Your first comment above says yes. My idea about that idea is that it's false. This is the sort of trouble mind can get itself into.

Phil

Phroggy | Tue, 08/05/2008 - 08:30
Omkaradatta's picture

First comment

"Is the idea represented in the question false? Your first comment above says yes."

My first comment says that all concepts/ideas are false. What I mean by 'false' is 'limited to the mind'. Concepts refer mainly to other concepts - it is a closed system.

And yes, "all concepts are false" is also a false concept, albeit a pointer. If revealing the falsity of mind's ideas acts as a pointer for you, then more power to ya. I just wonder how long it takes to convince the mind that its concepts are false, as the mind is itself "made of" concepts. Could it conceivably go on forever? Perhaps a focus on Being has some merit, as being is thought-free from the start.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/05/2008 - 17:02
Phroggy's picture

"My first comment says that

"My first comment says that all concepts/ideas are false. What I mean by 'false' is 'limited to the mind'. Concepts refer mainly to other concepts - it is a closed system."

Yes, that's what I mean by context. Is it true that if you drop something, it will fall? Of course. It's not wisdom to declare that idea false. As you say, it refers to various other ideas, which are the content of that context.

"I just wonder how long it takes to convince the mind that its concepts are false, as the mind is itself "made of" concepts. Could it conceivably go on forever?"

Who/what would be trying to convince what mind, and what sense would it make to try to convince a concept of anything? Maybe there's something more going on besides a swirling cloud of neumonic debris?

What I wonder about is how someone who has looked at concepts and found them to be false can declare that looking at concepts to find out if they are false is impossible. I guess the world is full of unsolvable mysteries.

Phil

Phroggy | Tue, 08/05/2008 - 19:37
Omkaradatta's picture

Context and ideas...

"Yes, that's what I mean by context. Is it true that if you drop something, it will fall?"

Depends where you drop it. On the space station, or on a diving aircraft, it will not. In water, it may not.

"Of course."

So saith the mind.

"As you say, it refers to various other ideas, which are the content of that context."

Context is a dream, along with the concepts within it. Real life is situational, not contextual - as the examples above regarding outer space and water clearly indicate.

Drop a glider from some height, and it will not fall but soar. Drop a lit rocket from any height, and it will do the opposite of falling.

"If you drop something, it will fall" is false. "If you drop
something, it will not fall" is false.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Tue, 08/05/2008 - 21:10
SriSriYogiBaba's picture

Off the point

You're really reaching now, omka.
Best admit defeat in this particular round of dharma combat, limp home and sharpen your sword for next time.

SriSriYogiBaba | Sun, 08/10/2008 - 16:52
Omkaradatta's picture

Reaching...

I enjoy 'reaching', or 'thinking outside the box'. I don't consider myself in dharma combat, for whatever it's worth. I enjoy moving conversations into new, unexplored areas. From here it's not about "me and you", it's about the pleasure of exploration.

Folks typically don't 'get' the fact that I don't think socially (as most do). The usual "me vs. you" or "me reassures you" bores me to tears.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 01/24/2009 - 04:05
Michael ji Ramaprasad's picture

What If

"As all concepts/ideas are false, it's a trap. Of what use are mind's ideas about mind's ideas? Recollect your Being, let all else go."

What if the belief that all concepts/ideas are false is the trap. What if the belief that the mind is limited is a trap?
In that case who is not in a trap? and would it still a trap if we chose to be there? If not, then liberation lies in accepting where we are as what it is, there in lies truth...

I wonder then if Truth would be what we accept it to be, hence everyone's truth would be different. Maybe it is that way for a reason. If it is, who gives it a reason for being that way? Who is the one that accepts? I am. If that is true then I choose to accept that I chose to be where I am and in so doing, I cannot be in a trap. My purpose then is what I choose it to be and my truth is my acceptance of that purpose that I chose.

Michaelji Ramaprasada

Wú Míng(nameless) in truth

Michael ji Rama... | Fri, 01/23/2009 - 21:29
Phroggy's picture

~

That's a nice trap you've built there. Hehe.

That all concepts/ideas are false in not a concept, idea or belief from here.

Phroggy | Sat, 01/24/2009 - 00:22
Omkaradatta's picture

What if...

> What if the belief that all concepts/ideas
> are false is the trap. What if the belief
> that the mind is limited is a trap?

In my view these are not beliefs, but truths. All concepts/ideas are false, and the mind is limited. One can only discover these facts for oneself. Until then, they will look like beliefs, as all undiscovered truths do.

> I wonder then if Truth would be what we
> accept it to be, hence everyone's truth
> would be different.

What you're describing above is opinion, not truth.

Until we extract ourselves from the social dream, it's common to see 'truth' as relative (except maybe for "objective" truth, which is actually also based on consensus subjectivity, social agreement).

How feeble is this second-hand, 'hearsay' way of living and seeing? Why not learn to rely on yourself? Stop trying to see things through the eyes of others, and look out through your own eyes only. Of course, this means giving up "me", which is based on "how I believe you see me".

The painful and outrageous sacrifices we make, simply to keep from feeling alone... all of which are futile in the end, as we are alone (all one) anyway ;-).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 01/24/2009 - 04:55
Angelic1966's picture

Closer to the truth I think:)

I have found in my experience that this is closer to the truth..the trap of advaita and most non-dual teachings is that it wages war on the ego rather than accepting it as a whole and allowing it to be lovingly aligned with and transfigured by Grace by it's Source..Ego btw is simply the Latin word for I but has become laden with negative connotations like the words love or God..you might want to contemplate that haha... in fact the Spiritual "ego" of and "enlightened guru" is often authoritarian and fascist in it's demand for submission and control of the sadhak's mind body and soul...

Angelic1966 | Thu, 08/22/2013 - 06:45
Quantum's picture

"transfigured by Grace by it's Source"

I would tend to agree with you. I once heard it expressed along these lines:

In Eastern traditions, the goal is to annihilate the ego. Whereas in Christianity, God made the ego, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, because the ego can worship and love God, and live daily in that love and devotion to God, and others.

I wonder how annihilating their egos is working out for those who try? When I meet one, I'll ask him/her, "So, how's that working for you?"

Quantum | Sat, 10/12/2013 - 20:48
gg74k's picture

NOW

How about just forgetting everything else and focus on the now, I'm very much into keeping it simple, divided attention, self remembering, any tool i can use, usually just one or two that seem to stick, that gently bring me back to the now when i slip into dreaming or self forgetting.
Meaning that, the presence of any thought, feelings, or actions is never interpreted to mean anything other than they are present. One of the things Ramana Maharshi said that stays with me is,"If you would deny the ego and scorch it by IGNORING it, you would be free.
just my 2 cents.. peace everyone

gg74k | Fri, 02/20/2009 - 23:24
Phroggy's picture

~

That's cool n all. Focusing on being in the present can be very useful to help us see why we can't do that, but rarely effective. Most folks find that it can be done for periods in meditation, but can't be sustained much beyond that.

One problem is that the stillness of mind brings up unconscious stuff. Another problem is that ego tends to spontaneously assert itself when it feels itself slipping away. And lastly, what is it that wants to accomplish something by 'scorching' ego?

I've found that being present in a 'normal' state of consciousness can't be done because that which is doing the doing needs to not be present in the present, so my focus is more on revealing the truth about ego (being conscious) and the destructive nature of mind's spinning. This DOES result in short periods of spontaneous presence in which there's the distinct sensation that ego simply forgot to show up.

Phroggy | Sat, 02/21/2009 - 06:37
Omkaradatta's picture

Just curious...

> Most folks find that it can be done for
> periods in meditation, but can't be sustained
> much beyond that

Just curious how ya know what 'most folks' are finding, as I certainly don't.

From here, a complete non-focus is the best approach. There's nothing to focus on here, nothing to achieve, nothing to accomplish, nothing in particular to think about. This tends to result in 'being in the present' quite spontaneously. To be in the present, surrender the past and future.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 02/21/2009 - 09:38
Phroggy's picture

~

Are you really just curious, cuz most folks who ask questions like that are actually making a statement.

I spent a few months on a Tolle forum where all claimed to have had some experience of being 'in the present', and obviously thought it to be wonderful, but none of whom claimed to be always present. My question, which I repeatd like a parrot until I got some answers, was 'Why not now, always?' Finally, the reasons became clear. (I then proceeded to personally interview all 6.7 billion peeps on the planet. HA!)

"From here, a complete non-focus is the best approach. There's nothing to focus on here, nothing to achieve, nothing to accomplish, nothing in particular to think about. This tends to result in 'being in the present' quite spontaneously. To be in the present, surrender the past and future."

I don't believe you ever approached it with a complete non-focus, though I'm somewhat open to the possibility. I think that you found yourself not focusing and you see that it works. I think that the whole thing happened "quite spontaneously" and now you would turn it into an approach. The non-focus is also what I described, but I don't offer it as an approach.

Phroggy | Sat, 02/21/2009 - 19:03
Omkaradatta's picture

You're right..

You're right on both counts... I was more or less making a statement, and you're correct about just not focusing and finding that it works. Both cases (the statement disguised as a question, and the approach) are catering to the ego, but there's nothing else to cater to, no other reason to talk about this stuff :-p. I could have just stayed silent.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sat, 02/21/2009 - 23:54
Phroggy's picture

~

Well, at the risk of being the optimistic one (hehe) it's not ego that's 'listening', right? I get clarity both from what you say and from what I say, so I don't see it as 'reasonless'.

Phroggy | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 03:07
Omkaradatta's picture

Eh, OK...

Eh, OK ;-). Sometimes I wonder if the wiser fellers with clarity just remain silent, although there's no way to know, as we tend to hear from the ones who do all the talking ;-). Everything is perfectly OK as-is, of course... nothing is out of place, nothing missing, nothing lacking.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 03:51
Phroggy's picture

~

Perfection is dynamic rather than static, meaning that it's the way in which it is changing that's perfect, since it can be no other way. So, the perfection is not in how it is, but in how it is unfolding.

Phroggy | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 08:58
Omkaradatta's picture

Static and dynamic

Static/dynamic is a dualistic pair -- the truth neither changes, nor remains the same ;-).

Memory is required to compare the present moment against... memory, *not* a different present moment. There seems to be neither unfoldment nor fixity here/now, and the perfection lies in freedom from both -- a perpetual newness, without the continuity and compulsion implied in both unfoldment and fixity.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 09:44
Phroggy's picture

~

Sounds right. Thanks.

Phroggy | Sun, 02/22/2009 - 19:28
Angelic1966's picture

totally agree!Advaita on the

totally agree!Advaita on the other hand presents a static state of changeless being..a fallacy imo

Angelic1966 | Thu, 08/22/2013 - 06:47
Bercano's picture

Traps and Such, What If

Hiya Phil...Huge Smilesss.... what a Feast, to dine on your words ...even the Gods would be Jealous of this Banquet ...and Saints and Guru's just might feel threatened ...LOLLL
...anyhow what you are musing about as/of traps and such...I totally resonate with.
What STANDS out...( for this Self) is that which is Saying,(whomever is saying it) acknowledging, possibly even recognizes ...THAT LIFE is But a Dream...Row Row Row your boat ...Merrily Merrily Merrily ...Life is "but" a Dream.
....and so, what I more so observe is a Ignoring of THE DREAM, for a Better Dream, that is esentially the "BUT" form our Nursery-song.
(side-line muse : But = Duality, Control,Conditions etc)

...in betterment of whatever kind...
...again sleeps the IGNORANCE, that wants to "CONTROL"....and due to the trap, that thinks something can be Controlled is the wild-goose-chase back in it's GAME/DREAM sorta speak ....as well as in degrees, that plays with duality alll over again.

...in a betterment of a dream, ...One then Evolves ...achieves 7 levels of enlightenment....or the State of a Saint,Guru-ship and why NOT a Avatar ...and lets NOT forget to toss in God's, Bhagavan's, Amma's, etc etc...and the more titels...the better the Dream and its entertainment INDEED ...................................... *Guru's-Feet* yeahhh fukk God, what has God ever done? ... let's worship Guru's, Titel's,Their Teachings, Their Books, personal pride & Vanity...
Sure,briefly it's address, that ALLTHATIS, is SELF...that there is No Other ....and yet there is a Claiming and Proclaiming, that betrays in THAT Obvious Ownership...that argues in Multiple Personality disorder, that SELF must be?? ( its actually Funny to this Self :}

The Thing Is.... When is a/the DREAM, NOT a Dream?? when did it cease being a Dream?...did this Self miss the Bus

You Know...the Smiling at a child, that has Imaginary Friends....it's Wonderfulllll-ness of Fantasy/Fiction we come to Adore, Love and Cherish ...there is NOoooo Need to take away the Child's Imagination....Until Fantasy's Bubble bursts alll on its own ( kundalini HAPPENS)...and what is left, is the SELF
...and in THAT Bubble bursting explosion...Its SOOOOOOOOO OBVIOUS, that all that is, is SELF

per example a quote
Quote
Amma Sri Mata Amritananda Mayi

"Be Ware; your actions in the present determine your future"

...sounds very dualistic to me....Now why would I possibly be worried about Future, when all there is, is NOW?...which kinda really Really REALLY opens a Can of Worms on Karma.....LOLLLLL ,Ohh Well who ever wants to play with Karma ...why not

So...to this Self....Simply Self has Imaginary Friends...an IAM-WE scenario...yet nevertheless in its playing 'Peek a Boo'...ONLY 1 SELF is Playing.

Love-Smiless,
B-Self

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Wed, 03/11/2009 - 21:48
Phroggy's picture

~

Ahh, the memories of now. Since that first post I ever made on Gurusfeet, I've asked a lot of evil, inane questions. Whenever somebody says 'That technique really worked for me!', I ask, 'who egzaklee did it work for and what does it mean that it worked for you?' When somebody says I should behave because this is a sacred place, I ask who or what made it more sacred than my bathroom, and why? When folks say, 'Don't question it with the mind, just do it', I say not questioning why you do what you do is what got you into such a stupid mess to begin with. When they say Truth must be experienced, I say, who made experience God all of a sudden and how does it differ from the illusion you've been experiencing all along?

I'm terribly evil, but most have politely accepted that and carry on in spite of me. I still appreciate the folks here because the zombies manage to walk in straight lines and avoid bumping into one another as they tend to do elswhere. :)~

Phroggy | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 02:58
Omkaradatta's picture

Aiii..

Aww now Phil, it's sorta separative to call fellow forum members 'zombies', eh? Certainly not conducive to communicating openly with folks, although that may not be what you're interested in.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 12:02
Bercano's picture

LOLLLLLL Aiii...

SMILESSSS ...while we all having FUN, enjoy ...in JOY ....and are playing Omkara...it Actually turns out, Phil's Remark was VERYYY Conducive....You, Jumped on it...perceived 'separative'.... still takes words Serious/and in/of subtle judgment? ...as every-ONE-Self jumps on that wagon...for the ride, for the fun of it;}

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 15:13
Phroggy's picture

~

Was that a little over the top? Hehe.
So how does one openly communicate with a zombie?....OopS, I did it again, didn't I? :)~

Phroggy | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 17:32
Bercano's picture

~ I'm terribly evil ....LOLLL

Yep Echo's....yeah well, Call me Lucifer...LOLLLL for Lucifer-SELF is brave enough ( metaphor brave enough = bravo )to kick God in the ass to see/witness, SELF
.....I still appreciate the folks, Yep Totally :}

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 14:53
Phroggy's picture

~

Thanks for bringing some lightness to this oh-so-serious place. How can we not laugh at our absurdidty? :)

Phroggy | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 17:41
Bercano's picture

laugh,not laugh at our absurdidty? :)

....when we take bullshit,and Dreams very Serious....LOLLLL

When Self got sick of his saints
and bored with guru's
he created me ...
to LAUGH at Everythingggg

they took seriously.

B-Self, Eternal Infinite Sri Fukkamee Swami

Bercano | Thu, 03/12/2009 - 21:51
genep's picture

"terribly evil"

Hi Phroggy:
"Ahh, the memories of now. Since that first post I ever made on Gurusfeet, I've asked a lot of evil, inane questions...."
-------------------------------------
your post literally blows my mind:
The SELF does it all: it writes, speaks all words.
But sometime its words are pristine and pure because they are undiluted with the dualities that make reality appear real.

whether you realize it or not: your words are the Self talking/writing pristine and pure -- and for this you appear evil.

Reality defines the word evil: anything that threatens reality is evil: so according to reality the Nonduality of Self has to be the ultimate evil.

Yes, reality makes you terribly evil, but keep up the good work because when it comes to all the evil that makes reality appear real: you have a long way to go to catch me.

-- gp

genep | Sat, 03/14/2009 - 16:21
Phroggy's picture

~

Yes, I know why I'm often labeled with such derrogatory terms, and it's fine. It tells me a lot that you also know.

Phroggy | Sat, 03/14/2009 - 22:57
Omkaradatta's picture

Are ya sure?

Are you sure... never noticed anybody label your questions as 'evil' or 'inane'. Sounds here like sarcasm, which is related to the ego, quite honestly, as it assumes folks are thinking this or that when there's really no way of knowing for sure -- in other words, it's 'seeing oneself through the eyes of others', which is actually impossible. This is how we develop the 'self-image' in the first place.

Which derogatory terms have you actually been labeled with, how often, and by how wide a spread of different people? Just curious.

P.S. dunno if it's true for you or not, but 'lone warrior for truth' is a self-image, and as inaccurate as any other.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 00:40
Phroggy's picture

~

Right, 'evil' and 'inane' are terms used for egoic dramatic effect.Did it work? :)~
I've been called many things and I really don't see the point in documenting them.

'Lone warior for truth' is your invention. Is that what you feel like? I don't.

Phroggy | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 02:50
Omkaradatta's picture

Hmmm?

> Right, 'evil' and 'inane' are terms
> used for egoic dramatic effect.Did it work? :)~

Thought ya said you don't feed ego, that you offer no food for it.

Re: "lone warrior for truth", it's just an orientation I've seen you seemingly take every once in awhile. Certainly not always.

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 18:13
Phroggy's picture

~

"Thought ya said you don't feed ego, that you offer no food for it."

Hmmmm, I don't remember saying that. I get silly and dramatic at times, and I even get frustrated at times. I'm not the ego police, I'm more like a spectator, and all of it can be mucho funny to watch, and anybody who thinks their behavior needs to be controlled is confused about both what they are and what's controlling what. Let it all move as it needs to move and it won't ever trouble you. The ego policeman is corrupt to the core; ego itself.

"Re: "lone warrior for truth", it's just an orientation I've seen you seemingly take every once in awhile. Certainly not always."

Yeah, sometimes, but the battle is never 'out there', as perhaps those words imply, and it's not a source of pride. Sometimes I see myself spinning in place and it's time to break out of it. Happens by itself.

I see you looking for unconscious stuff in me. Any chance you'll get tired of that? :)~

Phroggy | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 19:37
Omkaradatta's picture

~

"I see you looking for unconscious stuff in me. Any chance you'll get tired of that? :)~"

Probably. Just keep on saying "nope, you're incorrect, no, that isn't happening, nope, you missed, nope, that isn't it" ;-).

http://www.omkaradatta.info

Omkaradatta | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 21:58
Phroggy's picture

Okay.....

Will do. :)~

Phroggy | Sun, 03/15/2009 - 22:18
Quantum's picture

the Arrow shoots itself

"...it's the person who imagines to be seeking, and so it's difficult to imagine that the person actually wants to find anything that doesn't include it...."

The paradigm of the right hemisphere (Upper Case Self, spiritual experience) is outside the paradigm of the language speaking left (egoic mind, lower case self). It's beyond words. Like Lao Tsu, or someone like that, said "If you can talk about it, it's not it." And its like like St. Paul said, "Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, words cannot describe..."IT." I paraphrased Paul of course. And of course, my interpretation is more correct. LOL!

Bear with me, I'm indulging my ego's craving for mischief. There's more. Hang on. :)

"...a sudden relaxation into a kind of spaciousness, and this spaciousness is the key to what's really going on. There was no solution, no negotiation, no resolution as such at all, just this open space that shows up. What has occurred in relation to this struggle is that 'you' got up and left the room. It's not a different relationship to the problem, it's no relationship at all. "

Yes, Phroggy, I know what you mean. And the sad thing is, that cannot be "done" on purpose. It's a grace that happens when it happens. It's like Eugene Herrigel, while trying to release the bow, released it on purpose, and it really really ticked of his Zen master. Some time after he apologized, and tried agian..and again.. and then stopped trying...one day..while he wasn't trying, It released it self. His Zen master bowed towards him, and said, "Now! IT released itself". To which, Mr. Herrigel whooped in delight at "HIS" accomplishment...but alas this too ticked off his Zen master again. It wasn't Herrigel who "shot" the arrow. "It" shot the arrow. ONLY while Mr. Herrigel, like you say, "Got up and left the room" so speak.

Same thing happened in Zen tennis with Mr. Adam smith, "Power of Mind", page 196:

"Zonk! The empty tennis ball can went up into the air...

'Who did that?' I said....

....I began to giggle wildly. I danced around a little..I did it! I did it! 'I said.'

Immeditately it went away. The next five balls went into the net. 'I shouldn't have said that...that sonofabich is sure sensitive." -Adam Smith, Power of Mind, pg 196.

Grace, can, not will, happen when we stand out of the way. When we "Let Go and Let God". By the way, that's the title of another book, "Let Go and Let God." In my own experience, Grace can come, not guaranteed, when I stand out of the way, when I 'let go', when my egoic mind has given up the struggle and gone dormant. Grace is not something I force to come with my intellect or my mind or my ego or my thoughts..well, maybe the thoughts...good thoughts with good universally beneficial positive feelings. (Hmm... universality, inclusiveness seems to slice through the ego....you just made me think of something Phroggy!.. I'll file that for contemplation for later...quick note for later: Universality, inclusiveness, of good thoughts and feelings seem to cut through ego and put out the welcome mat for Grace.) Cool!

***
OKay, i'm back.. I had to type copy past that universal inclusiveness welcomes Grace bit into my journal. Now, I have another insight to contemplate on when I next enjoy a peaceful moment of quiet contemplative solitude. Peace in Solitide. Ever savor that, Phroggy? During the cool of the evening, while walking peacefully, among the landscaping, I would feel within myself, "Here I am Lord." And you feel God.
***

Kay...next!

"...under only one condition....your absence."

Amen to that. Again, let go, let god. God cannot be experienced with the mind, ego, will. God is not foudn in the left language speaking, linear thinking, Capt Cisco linear entity. God is in the righ Hemisphere, in non-linear, outside paradign of language, god is among the what do they call them in Deep Space Nine? Oh yeah.. "The Prophets".. those intelligences outside the linear paradigm.

That's why art is art. The beauty in art is an expression of what cannot be spoken in words. Michael Angelo, I think it was, saw the Angel in the marble, he merely chipped away the excess stone. Art conveys what is experienced inside that cannot be expressed in words. If tried to expressed in words, it sounds....stoned.

Zen and the art of cooking...taken from my own life, if you spend your time cooking up a dish, and do it because love it, and enjoy it while you do it, and don't rush...everyone will swoop down on it during thanksgiving and come back for seconds, and take home any leftovers, and someone close to you will say, "What was that all about?"

I go.. "LIke water for chocolate, Love. LIke water for chocolate. We inbibe whatever we do and make with what we feel while we do and make it. Huh? They might say...and you go..it's the difference between shoddy work and a work of art."

Pax Vobiscum.

Quantum | Sat, 11/28/2009 - 20:53
Toltec Logic's picture

The truth is we each of us

The truth is we each of us have it within ourselves
this capacity to live an awakened life, not by holding
on to any one life changing catharsis of being but
rather in remaining true to our being no matter what
the circumstance. What is the point of self mastery
if not to do good works for the sake of temporal
achievement? But we must first learn to walk before
we can possibly hope to fly. So many are the
teachers from every unknown persuasion telling
us how much we have yet to grow.
And yet it is said, “The situation may be up to others,
but creation of life is up to oneself.”

“So in the path of practice of the Tao, it is not a matter
of people's talents or qualities, but of whether or not they
have determination. Without determination, even talented
and intelligent people are incapable of attaining the Tao;
with determination, even ignorant men and women are
capable of attaining it. As it is said, those who realize it
immediately ascend to the rank of sages, while those
who miss it sink in the stream forever.”
Taoist I Ching

Great perfect mirror
awakening is
not an idea
but a time when
the knowing essence
becomes manifest

Toltec Logic | Sat, 01/30/2010 - 19:40
Toltec Logic's picture

Splitting Hairs

So much focus on doing getts us nowhere
not even awakening is an end in itself.

Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence

Toltec Logic | Sat, 01/30/2010 - 22:01
Angelic1966's picture

Let Go and Let God! Let Go

Let Go and Let God! Let Go of God! May The Source Be With You!!

Angelic1966 | Thu, 08/22/2013 - 06:49
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

There're No Traps

There are no traps, existence has blinders on all except those who are destined to evolve to the next plane. Each one qualified to enters the next plane have incarnate as every attribute of man known to man of both genders, ethnics and the 144 attributes obtained when multiplying the 12 eastern Zodiac signs by the 12 western. Anyone not having evolved through whatever that number is when multiplied by all of the variables is not qualified to do anything except speculate on what enlightenment is, follow all misinformation and believe whatever that incarnation has for them to believe.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "NatureBoy"--

Elijah_NatureBoy | Tue, 06/01/2010 - 02:05
MAI's picture

Mind running in circles

Dear Phil,

>True surrender happens under only one condition....your >absence. This is why mind can never bring it about.

That's bang on.
It happens spontaneously, not because of a "you" or "the mind", trying to bring it about.
Why a dog decides to suddenly stop chasing its own tail...?
The mind can only run in circles around itself.

TRUTH,LOVE,PEACE
MAI

MAI | Fri, 01/04/2013 - 12:26
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

Circle Running Is Destiny!

You are so correct, Mia, we run in circles until it's our destiny to become enlightened arrives. During our experiencing earth stage we are like tadpoles, we know a future change is coming but having not experienced it we don't know what until it arrives, and even during the transition they're surprised at what's happening until seeing the transition completed and enter the comprehending life stage.

Thus, during out experiencing earth and early transition stages, our metamorphosis, we run to everyone we believe to be enlightened because it's what we know is to happen. However, during the transition stage we see through those who are not actually enlightened and only occasionally meet with an enlightened one who questions us in a way we discover our on answers and leave us prophecies as a means of recognizing they were actually enlightened messengers or what is called angels.

--Elijah "NatureBoy"--
Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @
http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm

Elijah_NatureBoy | Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:00
backwaters's picture

Someone who walks in the

Someone who walks in the desert and knows that what he is seeing is a mirage can still enjoy the illusion. And when he ventures in for a closer look, it vanishes.

Truth is irresistible. Life pushes us in its direction. A useful compass/GPS lies within us – our unchanging self. By the grace of the One Absolute Eternal Reality, consciousness can become aware of itself.

A thought arises “who am I?” and on focusing on the ‘I’ thought, all other thoughts vanish. Keep observing the ‘I’ thought and it will also vanish and what remains – the observer/seer is your unchanging self i.e. aliveness/pure awareness/consciousness without thoughts.

Once a mirage has been recognized as such, you may begin to enjoy the mirage instead of getting deluded and thus suffering. Once the identification with content/ changing self has been broken, you can be free to observe your content with compassion. As you shine the light of your awareness on all your content, the content itself may change and further purification can take place. Anyway, the ascent to Truth continues. Peace.

backwaters | Wed, 03/05/2014 - 09:25