It occurred to me yesterday that it is very unlikely that something like God exists.
The main idea is about whether there is such an entity with consciousness.
Not something mechanical similar to a dog, which means nobody even if it has a shape.
Something like a human. A conscious one orת more accurately, one that seems to us conscious.
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The term Brahmin does not connote any particular caste or sect but it signifies a transcendental stage of spiritual sublimity. Every man of the world can attain to that stage by spiritual training. Every man in the universe has the right to become a Brahmin by reaching that stage. It is only to help people in reaching this transcendental stage that dynamic souls, the highly radiant teachers descend on this earth.
You mean the old man...
with the long white hair, white beard, wearing a white robe, a rope for a belt, and sandals?
I don't think he exists either. At least not limited to that mental form if have.
Conscious intelligence or orphan cosmic law
I'm even talking about a much subtler sense - when we go beyond the cultural images and any form images (e.g. old man, white robe) we still imagine some integrated conscious entity, some intelligence that has presence, self awareness, and volition, that can understand and realize. Even when we say that it is all, that it is nothing, that it is beyond form, that it is omnipotent and omniscience, we still presume that there is someone on the other side of the line, not just some orphan cosmic law - I'm not even that sure that such conscious intelligence exists.
God may not exist?
" It is unlikely that something like God exist"
' Not sure that such conscious intelligence exist '
we are in a habbit of accepting existance of a thing which comes within perview of our perception.
Anything within our perception of sensory limitations that exist has a begining and an end. The rule applies to all the living and non-living creations. Once into existance it has a quality to reproduce itself (living) or it is produced by some other forces (nonliving). These productions are strictly guided by some laws and rules. Break the law, production and therefore further existance is seized.
The design through which this process is evolved and maintained is a work of intelligence- one of the attribute of concsiousnes. It does not matter whether it is within or beyond our limitations of perception.
Just imagine the existance of whole of the universe whose begining and end is beyond our perception; but whose guiding forces are so accurately and intelligently designed that it continues to exist from time unknown under a strict law.
This law and the lawmaker both is God ! You are free to give it a name or not. But it is obvious that some conscious intelligence must exist.
See his specific words about God
See what he wrote in the original post - he does not refer to the generic concept of God which can also be the cosmic law, arbitrary nature, etc. - this has no much interest because it actually means we gave a name ("God") to somthing, anything. He is referring to a conscious entity, and this may not be what God is.
Why do you think that?
"I'm not even that sure that such conscious intelligence exists."
Why did you think that?
I'm not going to say, as other might, "Who is thinking that way?", or "There is no 'Other' (i.e. 'God'); there is no self."
I'm not playing that game now. I'm just wondering why you think that, because I've been fascinated by Atheis for a long time. I have no concept of what it is like. Or what it feels like.
Nature of "God"
He didn't say that he thinks that it doesn't exist. Only that it is very unlikely based on senses and logic.
This is true and it is essential that one be frank with himself when such thoughts arise.
It doesn't say that God does not exist. I find it more speculating about the true nature of God and I like the way he phrased it.
BEING is beyond the mind
"....very unlikely based on senses and logic."
This whole forum, I'm finding, involves some very subtle thinking. One person will post something that I think is so brillian, an another will critique it from a different angle. At first I thought it was a bit irritating, but now I find it actually expands my thinking (....yeah..mind stuff.)
That said, BEING, is beyond the mind. So, from that, the existence of GOD (i.e. BEING) is "....very unlike based on ...logic" because logic is a mind activity.
It's easy to "know" (mind stuff) about God. In my world, I have met many "Christians" in church, who "believe" in God. But I wonder in my heart, if they are "Close to God." The words they speak, the attitudes in their faces, their demeaner, does not draw me to them as beings who are so close to the "PResence of God" that I want to be in their company. If I am in their company, it is in a very secular sense. Nothing spiritually inspiring or uplifting.
Your words are inspiring
I like your sincerity with yourself. It is the most valuable tool on the path. It make sure you will not miss an opportunity like we usually do. Others will not be open to contradicting opinions like you but will try to defend their opinion without even listening.
What I like in gurusfeet is the diversity - not only thinking alike advaita people or only osho people or only chakti people. In order to benefit from this rare place of encounter one has to be open like you.
I'm also trying to have openness to contradicting opinions especially after I feel I already crystallized my view on a certain issue. There is no certainty and once one realizes this a new world opens to him and he also regards thoughts and theories in a less seriousness.
What happens when God ceases to be an exciting toy for the mind
Investigating honestly our concepts of God is a vital and cruel process that we should all undergo and so few of us truly do.
After we peel from it all the concepts attached, what left of God is nothing the mind can play with, what left is something terribly boring for the mind.
This is the crucial moment: if one still sticks to that purified God despite its unattractiveness then he is blessed. Most will turn to a new exciting toy.
I Concur!
As I study the messages and life of the sages many call god, I am forced to believe they have already said god does not exist, even most Christian's Jesus.
When we look to nature and see curvature or circular forms to everything, it suggests existence is in a cycle and most likely a sphere. Spheres have no beginnings nor endings and all of them we see in the sky rotates, suggesting an existence without ends and opposing sides. Thus, there would be to sides to man on earth, I call them material and spiritual.
Our present civilization is the one I call material because we use earthen matter to produce things with our focus being on our bodies. The one I call spiritual (Bible's Revelation 21) is because it appears that they have no bodies, they are like our energy or ghost during this one, unseen by the eyes.
The very notion of god is the maker of everything but existence suggest by its design there is no maker. Yes, there are very precise rules appearing as if an intelligence governs everything, and it must, but should it be called a making god? I think not being EXISTENCE IS without beginning and ending.
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Have you questioned your beliefs? Reason the different concepts until all pros and cons are integrated into the 64,800 degrees of your vision.
--Elijah "NatureBoy"--