Have you ever inquired what belief in God actually means?

davids's picture



Average: 4.1 (13 votes)
pure_belief.jpg

When Jesus so persistently asks us to believe in God, he actually asks us to believe in something which we don't know whether it exists or not, right? Otherwise, it would be knowledge and not belief.

In the same way, he could ask us to believe in any other thing which we have no idea whether it exists or not, give it whatever name you like, and it will be the same.

As for example, he could ask us to believe in the existence of alien creatures or in the truth of the thesis suggested here.

In other words, Jesus actually asks us to believe. Point. Pure believing with no specific object. Meaning, to remain open, but truly and wholly, in all our heart.

The state of believing is key here, not God as we mistakenly tend to assume.

The name God is just a word and God cannot reveal, of course, in words. By the way, it can reveal in that state of pure believing but this is a matter of experience.

Therefore, focus on the state of believing. Leave aside the apparent object of the believing. It's unimportant.

Just be believing.

Dive into the inherent field of this state of believing. Believing by itself. Despite the fears, despite the uncertainty, despite the vulnerability you may feel.

It's uplifting, it's constant and complete openness, it's buzzing all over as a part of anything bigger, it's surrender, it has a quality of absence. Sounds familiar?

It's the closest thing to knowledge which is still not knowledge.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

-- Jesus

Through this pure believing, this absence, once-called-a-rich-man wouldn't mind to give away his fortune. So few have managed to pass this hard barrier, not even the rich man who met Jesus (See Matthew 19:16-30 and Luke 18:18-30).



LoveBeing's picture

Believing is not the same as Knowing...

Trust me,
I was also on the path of believing for some time..
But in the end the depression and anguish it brings is not worth it. We Must also Learn and Know from experience what we are talking about and doing.. We cannot just follow blindly after some text in a book or any religion or words by others (however famous they might be..) We must listen to our Own hearts and inner knowledge, or else we're like little children who do what their parents tells them.. Then they can become good or bad according to what is told to them bu society or leaders.. just like the Nazis did for example.. Many people think that feeling good is enough, but we should also Do what is Good and right. Since people can feel loved and happy just by believing that they guru or god is protecting them like small children.. but then they cannot be the grown up souls God wants them to become.. They do not take responsibilities for their own choices in life and do not give something unique of their own to the cosmos..

Even Jesus himself, so I hope, didn't mean to become that "God Man" that people have made him to be.. Then his whole message got distorted, when people no longer understood that they are as well the sons and daughters of God and actually have within them God himself..

This is it for my long message,
Thanks for your words..

Gil :-)

We Are God Enough! :-)

LoveBeing | Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:26
angel76's picture

Knowledge is deception

I suspect you misunderstood what he tries to say in the post.

Yes, the path to belief is hard and full of frustration until you get there. Trust me to continue on it in spite of the hardships and skepticism and when you reach a true belief, a true openness as the poster call it you will realize the greatness of it and the uselessness of knowledge comparing to the new vastness.

Knowledge is worth nothing, the essence cannot be grasped by the mind, This is the true deception, the real blindness - that we are so sure in the things we know. As long as you do not touch that which is beyond mind and knowledge, your spirituality is not different than academic philosophy.

Nowhere in the post, the writer says that you must follow the religious dogmas. He mentions Jesus because the New Testament (separated from Christianity) is one of the most amazing spiritual books and Jesus is one of greatest gurus.

The state of believing with no object, this openness that he talks about is indeed an unbelievable state. Try it according to his instructions. It's easier than you may think.

Don't give up. Go on with the pure belief.

PS. Feeling good is enough. All the rest is social and cultural dogmas we were brainwashed with. When you feel good, all the rest comes on its own.

angel76 | Fri, 04/30/2010 - 13:23
LoveBeing's picture

Yes you are right... :-)

I mistakenly got the wrong idea here.. So You can say that my comment before is not opposing but supporting! :-)
This what happens when reading too fast! :-)

So I guess the writer talks about what I'm saying..
This is what our minds does to us!
ha ha!

Lots of Love!
Gil :-)

LoveBeing | Fri, 04/30/2010 - 14:25
LoveBeing's picture

By the way.. About Believing in God..

Before I was talking more about religion itself..
I wasn't addressing the matter with God.. :-)

When it comes to believing is God- one needs to Know what God really is! and since we cannot let words of others be the only means to know God, since they might be just illusion or human talk- We must FEEL God within us! and the only way to do it- is Feeling it First! Then comes the Believing and Then comes the Knowing of it by heart. If we'll just believe since we are being told so- we do not know if we just believe in our own childish imagination or know reality.. But if we let ourselves Feel the truth inside of us- purely as it Really is- as Love & Inner Peace- then we not only Know the truth but we also Become it!

There's no way of "helping" others see god.. no text in the world can to that.. Only when the people are Ready- they find God.. so trying to convince others and helping them "see" and realize something they are not ready for, is a waste of time.. I no longer or maybe never really tried to convince people in God.. this is something personal they need to do (or not) for themselves.. Actually it is not a "must" since people can be connected to God within them and not even be aware of it.. God doesn't mind it at all anyhow.. Since God is Love that only loves and wants everybody to be happy, whole and complete..

Lots of Love!
Gil :-)

LoveBeing | Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:39
angel76's picture

You cannot know what God is

That's exactly the point - you cannot know what God is. It is transcendental, beyond the mind and as such it is equivalent to anything else which you cannot know. This is exactly the reason for concentrating on the state of belief itself.

angel76 | Fri, 04/30/2010 - 13:28
LoveBeing's picture

By Knowing I actually mean Being..

I'm not talking about knowledge..

We are all actually talking about the same thing..
This is the problem with words.. and what I talked about.
We must experience it for ourselves-
and then it becomes Real Knowledge-
Real Knowing actually.. :-)

For you, belief might mean Knowing as I see it..
But in my last comment I was talking about it as believing in something, in some form of conception.. Here's an example of what I'm talking about.. if one says: "I believe that Jesus is the son of god/or god itself.." this is actually just belief- it is not Knowing.. and not Being.. just something he was taught to believe.. But when one concentrates on finding the answer in himself- he find out that he himself is the God he was looking for! and how silly it is to believe in another person's divinity or religion- when You yourself are the One you are seeking! :-)

To believe in something human, some body, some ideas about this or that, is like believing in toys.. and fleeting images of the mind.. Just like someone who falls in love in a woman, and then stop it and even hates her and falls for another.. Same with religion.. people can come and go out of any belief system.. This is what I was talking about.

We should only believe and have faith in those things which are Eternal and basic enough for all to understand- like the existence of God which is in everyone and everything, in Love and our own Souls.. I myself add the belief in Afterlife.. and living a life with a purpose of Loving & Learning.. but this is something of my own I have learned from the Near Death Experiences I've read in my life.. Those I do trust since they are so universal and all around the world- and happened in Today's day and age, not somewhere in the vast history of time when the facts got washed away in time and got replaced by illusions.. :-)

Well this is enough for now..
What a speech huh?? :-)
Ir's easier for me to write like this,
than start a post of my own.. :-)
I need to be sure someone is actually reading it..
ha ha! :-)

Lots of Love,
and thanks for listening!
Gil :-)

LoveBeing | Fri, 04/30/2010 - 14:15
happy's picture

Guide to the Perplexed

Profound and refined text. It is the first one that I encounter that deals in a sincere way with the overused concepts of "God" and "belief" and thus gives a way to the so many that consciously and unconsciously fight for vain with the inability to believe.

Thank you!

happy | Sat, 05/01/2010 - 21:34
Azeemi's picture

Seeing is Believing

One has to be severely God-Ridden in order to Be. One can know God only after seeing God. Gil bro, I like your enthusiasm and love for God, and your words sparkle when you write that people only have belief in God but know HIM not. This is Truth, and a sad one.

Everything in the Universe is a pointer, a signpost, showing is the direction towards God, the best one is us, humans.

All Praises be to GOD Almighty.

AzeemiSoul

Azeemi | Wed, 05/05/2010 - 10:13
nelo's picture

God cannot be known

You cannot know God. If you know God then it is not God but some concept of God. God by its nature and definition is unfathomable and unlimited, mind cannot grasp such things.

The illusion and ignorance underlying the belief that God can be known is a foundation of the organized religions and a cause of great trauma to the masses striving to reach something that is unreachable.

This is to my understanding the exact essence, geniuse and beauty of the original post that admits this inability and anyway points out that not God is the thing that is important here but the state of belief itself. I am familiar with this state of openness which is the gateway to the beyond.

I suggest you to read again and carefully the original post with attention. It is indeed exceptional.

nelo | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:10
anderlaus's picture

Brave

This is very brave to say and admit. This inability to perceive God is traumatic and hence unacceptable to so many spiritual and religious people.

The good news are that although at the current perspective, God is worth as any other thing we are not capable of knowing, when you switch your focus from the God to the believing, a new connection emerges with God, only then God turns to be different than the other things we can't grasp. This does not mean that by focusing on the state of openness, we suddenly are capable of knowing God. God is omnipresent, it includes everything as so our mind, which God includes it as well, is completely incapable of perceiving God.

I think this post is revolutionary in its approach and frankness.

anderlaus | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 22:07
bonya basu's picture

Hello Azeemi! I track your

Hello Azeemi!
I track your comments,I find it very knowledgeable.
Hi LoveBeing!
I am tracking you Everywhere,Here... and There...
Your quotations are SUPERB...BRILIANT...HEARTTHROBBING...
I like EACH and EVERY QUOTAION...
Why don't you give link of your site here.
Let the people know you better...Who you are?
I could not read your blogs over there.
You are real "GIFT TO GOD"
I like the Quotation most.......
"YOUR TALENT IS GOD'S GIFT TO YOU...
WHAT YOU DO WITH IT IS YOUR GIFT BACK TO GOD......"
It fits you perfectly.
We have to think a lot WHAT we are giving back....
Thanks both of you for your wise contribution.

bonya basu | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:33
Azeemi's picture

humbled...

Thank you 'bonya basu'. Nothing of my own but only God's Mercy & Grace on me in the form of my Master!

All Praises be to God.

AzeemiSoul

Azeemi | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 19:03
LoveBeing's picture

Thank you very much my dear friend! ;-)

The quotes in that site are quotes from few years back,
Today I have so much more of them you wouldn't believe!
But I'm working my way up to one day writing more.. :-)
I hope the link to my blog in LightWorkers.org,
will work soon enough.. remember to check it out.. :)
I'm happy to hear from you and thank for your compliments!
I'm also happy to have you as my friend here.

Love & Hugs!
Gil :-)

----
We Are God Enough! :-)

LoveBeing | Fri, 05/14/2010 - 15:39
B-friend's picture

Show Me God

Take this for what you will, but here is a video clip with HWL Poonja that this discussion reminded me of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqOwPteS_Xg

When I tried the experiment, I fell asleep with the chocolate in my hand and woke up with it all over my face..lol

Does God have a really long string He keeps with him?

B-friend | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:55
Azeemi's picture

We all have seen God!

We all have seen God before being given this body of time & space. This body or bodily conscious is the veil between us and our true selves, between the spiritual world and between God. Regular and sincere spiritual meditators, under the guidance of their beloved Spiritual Masters/Gurus will sooner than later, see God again. All Praises be to God Almighty, my Spiritual-Master has helped me catch a glimpse, and take a glance...:)! if you have an able master, and are an able disciple yourself, you will fulfill this basic requirement of the spiritual journey.

If you believe that God cannot be seen, you should immediately quit the spiritual path, that is if you are on one. God has not declared this about HIS-SELF, who are we to say that about HIM, when we are not even aware of our own Self? Better lead an atheistic life than a spiritual life without GOD as your focus of vision and attention. Such a waste of time.

Our ego is too thick to accept another man's ego, forget the Ego of God. Spiritual Masters train this beast, this ego in us, make it human, spiritual....presentable before God. And then we realize that it is through God's Ego itself that we envision God Himself...not with our lowly animal worldly material faculties or senses.

How can one worship God, without seeing God?!?!

@ B-Friend: thanks for Papaji's clip. Nice.

AzeemiSoul

Azeemi | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 18:52
doo's picture

The same applies to love and the loved one

This unusual approach reminds me of that which was suggested for love in http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/first-look-love-then-someone-love.

In both cases we ignorantly put the emphasis on the object while the essence lies in the action, in the state that precedes the object.

Belief and openness are indeed equivalent to love. And indeed love to a certain loved object or belief in a certain God object diminishes the very power of the state.

You see it simply by comparing your impression of someone who is in love with someone (most of people, mostly a neurotic / obsessive matter) to your impression of someone who is love regardless of to whom (those very few we happen to encounter but very rarely on the path).

You also see it comparing your impression of a zealous religious person who has turned God into an object and admires it (obsessively) until he/she enters the dark night of the soul (e.g. Mother Theresa) to your impression of a true unconditioned spiritualist (again, very few that we happen to encounter very rarely and be absorbed into).

doo | Thu, 05/13/2010 - 22:38
bonya basu's picture

Oh..' GOD '.......Where .. are...You...........

As soon as you dissolve your bodily conscious and mind,you will be in the conscious of "GOD".This moment one has to achieve.This is only possible with the guidance of your master,but one thing I realised, sincerity and immense love for the GOD is needed.It is the "LOVE" which leads to "GOD".
If you start loving the "GOD" by your inner core of mind...you will feel that GOD is with you.You will start loving the whole CREATION....the nature....the creatures...the sky....the moon.....the stars.........then you find the "GOD" over there.
Love is the basic essence to find the "GOD".
I am reading a book "THE DIVINE ROMANCE"
by Sri Sri Paramhansa Yogananda.
I like this book very much it fills my heart with immense LOVE...............
Thanks all of you...
GOD MAY BLESS US................

bonya basu | Fri, 05/14/2010 - 07:05
Surya Kumar Mishra's picture

God --- seeing ---- believing

In Mundaka Upanishad it is written:
a blind showing the path to another blind

A person who has not realised God is showing the path to God.

Saints like Paramahans Yogananda, Mahavatar Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, Totapuri, Govindapada, Yukteswar Giri, Swami Samartha, Gnanadev, Lord Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, Kabir, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda,Ramkrishna Paramhans, Shirdi Sai Baba will be able to show the path to God.

Again it is stated in Srimad Bhagvad Gita:
The self can know the self through the self.
The God realised saints will support you realise God, but you are the only driver to drive yourself to yourself.

Surya Kumar Mishra | Fri, 05/14/2010 - 09:35
banana's picture

Brilliant

This is true. The believing is the issue, not "God". Most of us put so much emphasis and effort on the "God" part forgetting the fact that we have no idea nor ability to know truly what God is through mind.

But there is a warning: skeptic spiritual people (e.g. Neo Advaitans) will take this immediately to some secular mind-based concept that negates God as well as any metaphysical aspect. This is not the case here - There is a metaphysical cosmic mystic thing named "God", it is at this point irrelevant to you through the mind, do not chase it and do not negate it, just leave it aside and tune in to this important flight called belief - to this wonderful gliding of belief as a state of mind independant of any specific object of belief.

banana | Sun, 03/20/2011 - 10:15
Elijah_NatureBoy's picture

From Jesus God Means One's Self!

Since you used Jesus, David, you missed several passages where it reveals Jesus meant one's self when he spoke about god. The clearest one is "I and my Father are one" in John's gospel's chapter ten and verse thirty.

Then there's Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30 & Luke 10:27, called "The Golden Rule", where we find different forms of "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind" where we can only realize his saying "love they neighbor as thyself" in context means god is one's self.

When we read concerning his crucifixion, Matthew 27:46-50, where Jesus saw god leaving him cried out "my god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me" and later cried out again "and gave up the ghost" we should realize he was talking about his own lifeforce.

Therefore, he's suggesting we can know god, all we need to do is know ourselves without the conditioned judgmental minds of good and evil and we'll know god. What he doesn't say is we can only get to know god when we have incarnated as every personality type, both genders, all ethnics, all languages known among man and incarnate our last earthen sojourn. The latter is probably why he imply we can't know god, because he knew the greater masses are not in the incarnation to know themselves while the wise, in their time, would.

--Elijah "NatureBoy"-- Presenting SEEDS OF LIFE @
http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm

Elijah_NatureBoy | Wed, 02/15/2012 - 16:53